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beyond_gravity
Mar 16, 2002, 3:37 AM
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If I go, rap down and place all my gear, then climb it like a sport climb, is the still considered a redpoint?? if it is, can I say it's "on gear" or do I have to say it was a sport climb?? Or does this completely defeat the purpose of trad climbing?
Rock On,
Jeremy
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rrrADAM
Mar 16, 2002, 4:03 AM
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That would be a "pinkpoint".
A pinkpoint is when you climb a route clean on lead with draws, or gear for that matter, in place. If you pull the rope after someone else has lead a route, and leave the draws to climb it on lead, that is a pinkpoint. Therefore, even gym leads are really pinkpoints, as the draws are preplaced.
rrrADAM
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tenn_dawg
Mar 16, 2002, 4:33 AM
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You have to remember that trad climbs are rated partially on how difficult the placements are to get on lead. A trad route with difficult rests for hard placements will be rated much higher than a sport climb on the same route. So I dont think that redpoint would count.
On sport climbs however, it has become acceptable to pre-place quickdraws, then lead the route and call it a redpoint. Thats how all of the hardest new routes are going up. Think of all the fixed draws on big roofs.
Travis
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apollodorus
Mar 16, 2002, 5:43 AM
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I yellow-pointed a climb in Tuolumne once. I couldn't even follow the route, and needed to be hauled up like a Big Wall Pig. It was getting dark, and I got scared, so the leader just yarded away on the line to get me up so we could get off. This guy was so cool, though, we went climbing together later and even did a wall in the Valley.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-03-16 19:12 ]
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joemor
Mar 17, 2002, 2:55 AM
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true it is a pinkpoint.
still good to do tho, if the 1st has pulled the rope and you have a go at leading it its helpful to see their placements.
joe
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beyond_gravity
Mar 17, 2002, 4:43 AM
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I don’t get it. Wouldn’t it still technically be a redpoint? just not an "on gear" redpoint. I mean most bolts are placed on rap. So shouldn’t Chris Sharma have to place, and replace all the bolts on realization to technically make it a redpoint?
Rock On,
JEremy
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rrrADAM
Mar 17, 2002, 1:19 PM
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If the draws are hanging, and all you have to do is clip the rope, it's a pinkpoint.
If you have to place the draw or gear, it's a redpoint.
rrrADAM
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radistrad
Mar 17, 2002, 3:10 PM
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That is right, pre placed gear is a pink point.
Pre placing gear on a crack route is a good way to learn to place and trust your gear, but be careful about placing the gear in your key holds.
I almost exclusively climb cracks. I can lead cracks into the 10's, in a ground up on sight fashion. I can top rope 5.11 crack w/o falling, but when I get on lead on a 5.11 crack it becomes so much harder to place gear and do the route w/o hanging. If I were to pink point a 5.11 crack it would be far easier than leading it placing my own pro.
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beyond_gravity
Mar 18, 2002, 12:14 AM
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Ok, so Sharma can only Pinkpoint 5.15a?!! Insano
Rock On,
Jeremy
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jmlangford
Mar 18, 2002, 12:27 AM
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I have noticed that the line is blurred between 'pinkpoint' and 'redpoint'. It IS a pinkpoint if the gear is pre-placed but how many climbers are going to run around saying they "pinkpointed" something. They don't even call it 'pinkpointing' in the write-ups in the mags-but they should.
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clipngo
Mar 18, 2002, 12:34 AM
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I should point out to the young (read "new") guys that if a climb is lead on gear and the rope is pulled for you to lead (pinkpoint) be careful to check each placement when you clip. The rope drag could move some of the placements.
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radistrad
Mar 18, 2002, 12:43 AM
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Good point clipngo.
The gear is likely to shift, dont take that gear for granted. Check it each time!
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jt512
Mar 18, 2002, 3:47 AM
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The term "pinkpoint" is becoming archaic, because "redpointing" with the draws in place is becoming the norm. But that's sport climbing. If you send a trad climb with pre-placed gear, you should disclose this fact because it is definitely not as good style as placing the gear on lead.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-03-18 11:01 ]
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beyond_gravity
Mar 18, 2002, 4:50 AM
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soo, if I want a true redpoint without placing my gear on lead, I can just rap down and bolt the whole line, and thats called a redpoint, but if I just slots some nuts and cams in, it's not....funny!
Rock On,
Jeremy
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rrrADAM
Mar 18, 2002, 4:44 PM
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" soo, if I want a true redpoint without placing my gear on lead, I can just rap down and bolt the whole line..."
No Jeremy... This would be extremely bad style, as you are lowering a climb to your level, instead of rising to the level of the climb. Not to mentian that you'd be bolting a Trad line.
rrrADAM
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beyond_gravity
Mar 19, 2002, 2:27 AM
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No, i'd never do that, I do have some ethics! i was just using that as an exsample. Sorry if you took it a differnt way.
Rock On,
Jeremy
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rock_chic
Mar 19, 2002, 6:29 PM
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Woooow a second here folks, I'm very confussed..
So, you're saying a 'pinkpoint' is a climb you lead first time, no falls but with pre-placed gear? (or pre-placed draws on a sports climb)
So, then, whats a red-point?
And why do I have some idea that its to do with the number of pre-placed bits of pro/draws?
I had some notion it was like-
A redpoint was with three bits of gear pre-placed,
a yellow-point with one bit pre-placed or something like that?
To avoid the confsion I try not to lead routes with pre-placed anything(even if it means I have to take big whippers)
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rock_chic
Mar 19, 2002, 6:54 PM
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Oh yeah, AND,
I do think pre-placing gear does knida defeat the purpose of trad climbing.
I know for me, hanging up there with one hand with a set of rocks in my mouth, trying to find the one that will fit the goddanm crack, is part of the fun!
But then, if a person reall, really, really, really ,really wnats to do a climb and they feel the only way they can is by pre-placing gear then, fair enough.
BUT ,I also agree with the 'climb to the climb's standard, dont lower it to yours' theory...
Also, many of Gritstones finest routes are so fine and so feckin' hard because of the f---ING HUGE RUNOUTS on them!
The rubouts make the climbs and to me the idea of pre-placing gear on one of these sounds like you're not getting the full potential of the climb...
(That isn't to say its not done, most of the hardest routes are climbing first wih pre-placed gear and then on-sight lead without pre-placed.)
Well, thats my penny's worth...
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rrrADAM
Mar 19, 2002, 7:14 PM
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"Woooow a second here folks, I'm very confussed..
So, you're saying a 'pinkpoint' is a climb you lead first time, no falls but with pre-placed gear? (or pre-placed draws on a sports climb)
So, then, whats a red-point?"
Pinkpoint = climb clean, w/ pre-placed draws (usually a sport term, but would apply to Trad as well)
Redpoint = climb clean while placing draws or gear.
rrrADAM
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beyond_gravity
Mar 19, 2002, 10:58 PM
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What if your free-soloing and you fall, but dont try, then come back when ur bones heal and climb the route again, is that a redpoint?
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fishbait
Mar 19, 2002, 11:33 PM
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Hey Jeremy, what you're describing is a "Pink-Point." However, pink-pointing does NOT apply to sport climbing. If you climb a sport route with draws in place that is considered a "Red-Point." The terms apply differently to both sport and trad climbing. It only really becomes grey on routes that are mixed bolts and trad. Sharma did red-point Realization with the draws in place because it's a sport route. Trad purists seem to show some dislike for the use of the term "red-point" as it applies to sport climbing, but that's how it goes. It's just verbage...
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rrrADAM
Mar 19, 2002, 11:34 PM
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BG my friend... You need to do as the warning says, and use the glue "in a well ventilated area."
I think the fumes are getting to you.
~Adam
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beyond_gravity
Mar 20, 2002, 12:41 AM
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rrradam, that Marine Goop really did fix up my shoes, very well infact. Dont dis the goop! ..hehe
Rock On,
Jeremy
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climb512
Mar 20, 2002, 1:02 AM
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Adam, give it up. Way to many knuckleheads. I think bolting on rap is poor taste even for sport climbers. I think if you can climb it clean then do so,if not, then you are not ready(skilled) for that climb. Whats the big deal, climb it later when your skills are better. The rock will still be there. I d love to lead routes in the gunks like directissima, I am not good enough yet, so according to these guys I can rap down place gear then climb it and get the same credit as the guys that lead it. No f_ _king way!
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beyond_gravity
Mar 20, 2002, 2:57 AM
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I think bolting on rap is poor taste even for sport climbers.
If your setting a new route, that noramlly means your going to work on it. That means that your going to fall...How the hell do you place bolts on lead then, huh? that 5.12 you climbed, if thats a sport climb, do you think it was bolted on lead? not a chance. I think some people are getting a little to uptight in there "frist accent" pride here. Climbing should be enjoyed by everyone, and as long as there not damaging the rock, I think it's totally fine to lace up a crack on rappel. Maybe not call it a pink point or onsight, but call it fun, Definatly.
Rock On,
Jeremy
[ This Message was edited by: beyond_gravity on 2002-03-19 20:25 ]
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