|
sheldonjr
Dec 29, 2003, 11:04 PM
Post #1 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 191
|
Yet another crampon string... Anyhow, looking to get some good all around crampons. Something that performs well enough in both mountaineering and waterfall ice. I like the designs with horizontal platforms and vertical frontpoints. (Similar to BD Bionic.) But, this will be my first pair of crampons, so I'm not terribly picky. If you think I'd be better suited in a different style, tell me, and why. Plunging into the alpine world is a little intimidating. Thanks all!
-Spencer
P.S. I have a pair of Super Mountain 9 boots.
|
|
|
|
|
csoles
Dec 29, 2003, 11:57 PM
Post #2 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 329
|
The Bionic is a rather flexy crampon that can tire your calves on a long climb (your boots are stiff but not rigid). And it has no anti-balling plate so it's dangerous for alpine. Take a look at the Grivel G14 instead: stiffer and comes with a plate.
|
|
|
|
|
punk
Dec 30, 2003, 12:10 AM
Post #3 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442
|
Any of these will work for Ice and Alpine
BD Sabertooth
CM black Ice
Grivel G12
Grivel 2F
For all around don’t go with too stiff of crampon walking will weaken the underfoot connecter which will lead to crampon brake
Best for that are the hinge crampons
For Ice u would like the stiffest possible and for mix the semi stiff are Ideal
So it is a hard call but the one I mentions base on my experience seems to have the better of those two worlds
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Dec 30, 2003, 8:13 AM
Post #4 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
Recommend getting crampons that can be either hinged or bolted rigid. If you get any kind of "cookie cutter" frames (i.e. vertical frame members, like Grivel 2F) get antibotts before you ever walk out of the store.
Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
crag
Dec 30, 2003, 1:46 PM
Post #5 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 623
|
For years I used a Footfang/Koflach combo and never really had any complaints. The Footfangs began to wear and I didn't like the Superfang so I switched to Grivel, first the Rambos then to the Rambo Rs, liked them better for walking in, and for alpine I used the G12s. Not once have I had a problem or complaint with either Grivel product.
Ditto Brutus on the bott plates. Grivel does charge too much for theirs but they are worth it. You can also make your own if you wish.
|
|
|
|
|
csoles
Dec 30, 2003, 5:33 PM
Post #6 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 329
|
Over-flexing crampons is a thing of the past. Just aint' gonna happen with semi-rigid boots (all single boots and most doubles) that accept clip-on crampons. Can't think of any reason for horizontal frontpoints for an all-around design anymore, just snow slogging.
Even horizontal frame designs need anti-balling plates. You can make your own but the commercial ones are far more durable (except Charlet IME). Cassin, Camp and Grivel include them in the price, which is as it should be. The rigid one BD uses for the Sabertooth is lame but they're going flexible next season.
|
|
|
|
|
punk
Dec 30, 2003, 7:21 PM
Post #7 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: Over-flexing crampons is a thing of the past. Just aint' gonna happen with semi-rigid boots (all single boots and most doubles) that accept clip-on crampons.
Well try this on a lightweight boots/approach shoes without crampon attachment in order to lighten your load and ease out the approach then u wish u had flexible poons
In reply to: Can't think of any reason for horizontal front points for an all-around design anymore, just snow slogging.
Snow slogging seems like what a noob dose most till they get better ;)
In reply to: Even horizontal frame designs need anti-balling plates. You can make your own but the commercial ones are far more durable (except Charlet IME).
U tell'em those French are here to give us it in a Greek style :lol: yeah the CM anti-balling plate SUCKS the big wanker better do it yourself if own CM at least u have more money for Drinking!!!!
In reply to: Cassin, Camp and Grivel include them in the price, which is as it should be.
AMEN !!!! Yeah it is like buying a France car without car's tires
|
|
|
|
|
csoles
Dec 30, 2003, 8:39 PM
Post #8 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 329
|
In reply to: Well try this on a lightweight boots/approach shoes without crampon attachment in order to lighten your load and ease out the approach then u wish u had flexible poons
Note that the OP has real boots, not crapola. For lightweight stuff, Kahtoola is the way to go. BTW hinged crampons are obsolete, flex plates are better.
Also, it's smarter to buy gear you'll grow into instead of something you know you'll grow out of (horizontal fronts) and replace.
|
|
|
|
|
punk
Dec 30, 2003, 10:10 PM
Post #9 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: Note that the OP has real boots, not crapola. For lightweight stuff, Kahtoola is the way to go. BTW hinged crampons are obsolete, flex plates are better.
Not if they ball like creazy call me an absolete but I still like them for glaciers, schrund and seracs specially on the descent
BTW for lightweight nothing replacing my Stubai - da bomb
In reply to: Also, it's smarter to buy gear you'll grow into instead of something you know you'll grow out of (horizontal fronts) and replace.
Well it is best if u can have more specialized poons one for Ice craging and one for general mountaineering I replace mine every 3 years or so
|
|
|
|
|
tim
Dec 30, 2003, 11:18 PM
Post #10 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
|
In reply to: Also, it's smarter to buy gear you'll grow into instead of something you know you'll grow out of (horizontal fronts) and replace.
obTroll: When is Will Gadd planning on outgrowing his Sabretooths? ;-)
I haven't had issues with balling under my Bionics, yet. If it weren't for the neato rear-swept underfoot points that let one cop a rest in unlikely places, I would have replaced my Rambos with G14's, but alas I had a good lead on my friend's Bionics and fell in love with the BD's. :?
Many places sell the G14's with antibotts and only with antibotts. IMHO this is the righteous thing to do. Regarding the Black Diamond antibotts, my wife's Sabretooths have the old-style orange rubber antibotts, and having compared these with the ABS style, I hope they bring them back. They were much better IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
csoles
Dec 31, 2003, 12:02 AM
Post #11 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 329
|
In reply to: obTroll: When is Will Gadd planning on outgrowing his Sabretooths? ;-)
obReply, when he changes sponsors. Will uses all kinds of stuff when he isn't on camera ;-)
Selling crampons without anti-balling plates is just a cheesy way to make them appear cheaper and lighter than they really are. Bionics are more boot-dependent than any other high-end model; some combos work great, some suck. Lousy heel wire and no plate are drawbacks but they climb fine. Yes, the ST ABS is going away.
Punk, you don't want to know how many crampons are in my quiver. :shock:
|
|
|
|
|
punk
Dec 31, 2003, 4:54 AM
Post #12 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: Punk, you don't want to know how many crampons are in my quiver. :shock:
Same here :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
tim
Dec 31, 2003, 5:47 AM
Post #13 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
|
In reply to: Lousy heel wire and no plate are drawbacks but they climb fine.
nb. For anyone with the old-style Bionic heel bails (which are more than just lousy -- they full on SUCK), you can replace them with the vastly improved micro-dial model for $25. I did so, and immediately improved the fit on my Trangos.
re: boot fit: I noticed this -- the Bionics fit quite exactly on my Salomon boots, but when I wore out the soles on them in Argentina, I found a pair of Trango Ice Comps on eBay, and the crampons fit differently. They're not hideous, but they do have a weird overlap in some places. Thankfully, the inner points (which are the ones I use for hooking most) work fine.
|
|
|
|
|
bbevans039
Jan 18, 2004, 1:54 PM
Post #14 of 14
(2871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 34
|
I use the BD Sabertooth.. i climb grade 5 Ice and climb any mountain I go to in them.. Although for vertical ice .. i admit there not the best .. what do you do more? look into the sabertooths
|
|
|
|
|
|
