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keazah
Jan 16, 2004, 11:57 PM
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I was recently reading in a “climbing safe” book that the belay hoop should not be used to anchor yourself because it is proven that after a years use of your harness the belay loop might not hold…
How true is that? I frequently use that loop? Am I not supposed to use it? :shock:
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g-funk
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Jan 17, 2004, 12:06 AM
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Yeah, I'm curious too. Everybody says not to use it, but I've never heard of it actually failing.
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vegastradguy
Jan 17, 2004, 12:29 AM
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when tying in, you should tie in through the waist and leg loops...because that part of the harness is designed for years of abrasion of rope against webbing. the belay loop is designed for carabiners to clip to it, since they will not abraid the material like rope will.
however, the belay loop is the strongest part of your harness. it's actually rated stronger than the harness itself. it isnt designed for tying in, though. its meant for belaying as a convience. you could certainly clip yourself to it and clip to an anchor as a means of securing yourself in perfect safety (i do this all the time).
frequently check your harness for fraying. if the loop (or any other part) is frayed, retire the harness.
there is a thread around that has info from Black Diamond about belay loops and their strength and purpose. hopefully someone will link it up, since i'm the designated lazy guy who never does. haha. :P
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mmckinney
Jan 17, 2004, 12:32 AM
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i use it for repelling and belaying. in my opinion it is the strongest part of the harness... a doubled sewn peice of thick webbing... just check it along with the tie in point in your harness... when its worn, get a new harness.
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philbox
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Jan 17, 2004, 12:49 AM
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In reply to: I was recently reading in a “climbing safe” book that the belay hoop should not be used to anchor yourself because it is proven that after a years use of your harness the belay loop might not hold… How true is that? I frequently use that loop? Am I not supposed to use it? :shock:
This has to be a troll, however in case it is not the replies already submitted all make valid points. I will add that as the others have stated the belay loop is the strongest part of the harness and should be used for most things associated with anchoring and belaying except for tieing in.
Research was conducted as to how strong a belay loop actually is. What was done is this, a belay loop was created but not sewn, it was merely taped to prevent it from unwinding. A load was applied to the loop and it held full strength. The sewing is there to simply hold the loop from unwinding. You in effect have a no knot anchor or friction knot at your waist. Neat huh. Way stronger than you`ll ever need. If that thing busts you`ll have more than that to worry about. You would have broken every bone in your body first.
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popol
Jan 17, 2004, 12:53 AM
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On the Petzl harnesses, there's even an advice to use the belay loop for attaching the rope, even for head climbers..
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corpse
Jan 17, 2004, 1:34 AM
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In reply to: On the Petzl harnesses, there's even an advice to use the belay loop for attaching the rope, even for head climbers..
What about nose climbers? hehehe couldn't resist..
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popol
Jan 17, 2004, 1:52 AM
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ok, lead climbers. Translated it too literally :oops:
If you want to nose climb, use your piercing to attach your rope ;)
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geezergecko
Jan 17, 2004, 2:03 AM
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In reply to: On the Petzl harnesses, there's even an advice to use the belay loop for attaching the rope, even for head climbers.. |
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popol
Jan 17, 2004, 2:06 AM
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Yeah, maybe you're right. It might have been changed meanwhile. At least, it was on the manual of my harness, some 6 years ago. Also European vs US manual may be a difference :?
Anyway, it's safe to use it.
On the other part, clipping biners in the leg/waist loops - as some people do - is no good. The biners damage the harness, especially when you clip / unclip them frequently. Better use a figure 8 knot then.
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bbziger
Jan 17, 2004, 2:17 AM
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The Black Diamond info about belay loop strength mentioned above can be found here:
http://home.echo-on.net/~toadhall/outside/climbing/gear_tech_belay_loop.html
-BBB
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climber_dave
Jan 18, 2004, 11:39 PM
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In reply to: If that thing busts you`ll have more than that to worry about. You would have broken every bone in your body first. |
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drkodos
Jan 18, 2004, 11:41 PM
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In reply to: How much can I trust the belay loop in my harness??
Fully and implicitly.
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scubasnyder
Jan 18, 2004, 11:59 PM
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until it looks crappy then get a new harness
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philbox
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Jan 19, 2004, 3:00 AM
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I`ll say one more thing about biners clipped directly through the waist and leg parts of the harness. What is being set up here is a triaxial load to the carabiner and thus the biner is being loaded in ways for which it is not designed. In reality if one were to use anything one should actually be using a delta or D Mallion.
A carabiner is designed to accept loads near the spine of the carabiner. When another element is introduced into this straight line load configuration you are starting to load the carabiner towards the nose or gate side of the carabiner, this will greatly reduce the loads that this carabiner will carry. There is too much bulk of material in the waist and leg loops of a harness for a carabiner to ever be able to perform as it is designed to.
Use the belay loop, that is what it is designed for.
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soleclimbr
Jan 19, 2004, 3:34 AM
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your belay loop is the strongest piece on your harness just dont tie into it cuz then u wouldnt have redundency
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dc
Jan 19, 2004, 5:02 AM
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i trust my loop.. but i still dont use it.. cos.. its so damn annoying how the loop twists the belay device sideways... so i dont use my belay loop but not cos of safety.. like i'll clip in to an anchor with it.. but i dont actually use it for belaying.. the ATC ends up facing sideways :x ..
do any of you find this too?
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tedc
Jan 19, 2004, 4:58 PM
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If you can't trust your belay loop how can the person you are BELAYING!!??
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braon
Jan 19, 2004, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: i trust my loop.. but i still dont use it.. cos.. its so damn annoying how the loop twists the belay device sideways... so i dont use my belay loop but not cos of safety.. like i'll clip in to an anchor with it.. but i dont actually use it for belaying.. the ATC ends up facing sideways :x .. do any of you find this too? |
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mrme
Jan 19, 2004, 6:25 PM
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ever trie to escape a belley with the binner hooked to the harness and not the belay loop(besides its backed up by the rope anyway). and yes i love the reverso such a great atc for bring up the secound just clip it straight to the power point of the anchor. no hanging people from my waist, or a peice of gear or two to redirect the load of the harness, very easy to escape a belly, and does not kinck the rope like a mutter. less worries.
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gonzo
Jan 19, 2004, 6:47 PM
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The belay loop IS the strongest part, it is also slightly dynamic (Pulls hard and feel) to reduce the shock to the system. But I like redundency wherever possible so I do the following to all my harnesess.
Buy yourself about 1m of Dyneema tape (I think it's called webbing in the states). Double twist it through the leg and waist loops and tie off with a standard tape know. (Ensure about 4cm threads at the end 4 safety)
This basicly creates a 2 extra loops roughly the same size as ur main belay loop (they are crossed once). So your bones should break before the loop does :)
Dyneema is also slightly dynamic.
The reason I do two loops is that when I sport climb and get to the anchors I can quicly pull out one of the loops and the result is one longer loop 4 clipping in. Very usefull.
Just remember that your rope is still always tied to the two harness loops to reduce abarsion and while some ppl like to clip their biners to those loops, I don't due to the multiple loading on the biner. Rather clip it into my perfectly safe redundent main belay loop. Hope I haven't confused everyone :)
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timstich
Jan 20, 2004, 6:46 AM
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From tradgirl.com:
At the British Mountaineering Club, Student Club Safety Conference (what a name!) last October this bloke, who is the technical development manager for err Wild Country? Troll? said:
"This keeps on coming up! The belay loop is by far the strongest part of the bloody harness. The rest of the system would fail well before the bloody belay loop ever would. Belay from the bloody belay loop. The clue's in the bloody name."
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keazah
Jan 27, 2004, 5:04 AM
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Thanx for all your answers... I think you're right... I CAN trust my belay loop... and I'm still going to keep using it because I find it to be extremely helpful.
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