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sfclimber
Feb 16, 2004, 9:35 PM
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Registered: May 14, 2003
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After not having ascended an overhanging bolt ladder for about 2 years now, I decided to refresh my memory on LeConte Boulder.
Leading the 'pitch' and lowering from the top was as I remembered and went very smoothly. However, trying to ascend and clean went quite poorly.
Unfortunately for my ego a small crowd began to form just as the worst symptoms of Human Pinata Syndrome (HPS) began to make themselves evident. I half expected the children in the crowd to pick up a stick and start batting at my twisting, flailing form in hopes that candy might flow from my pockets.
Here's how I approached the task:
1. Ascend to quickdraw attached to bolt.
2. Lower bottom ascender so that it doesn't get caught up in draw after step 3. below.
3. Unclip top ascender and reclip to rope above draw shifting weight back onto top ascender.
4. Grab draw, pull my body into overhung wall and simultaneously try to unclip draw from bolt.
5. Repeat 4. above in flailing manner until successful.
6. Berate self for being too cheap to invest in keylock 'biners.
Later that night I concluded that in place of step 4. above I could probably have used a fifi hook slung to my harness to hook onto the bolt thereby taking my weight off the draw, cleaned the draw at my leisure, then performed step 4. on the much easier to unhook fifi rather than the draw. I further concluded that in the absence of a fifi, I could probably do the same thing using the hook of my nut tool!
Has anyone else found a convenient way to avoid HPS? Is there a better way to approach the task altogeather (i.e. were my steps flawed from the start?) How much worse is this with trad gear rather than bolts?!
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skiclimb
Feb 16, 2004, 9:48 PM
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Screw all that.....just re aid it when it's that bad. tie in short ..use a grigri, whatever but trying to stay with the ascenders gets to a point where it's counterproductive.
One of the bigger reasons I like Yates adjustable daisies.
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flamer
Feb 16, 2004, 10:19 PM
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I'm not totally sure why you had so much trouble...
Were you weighting ONLY the top jug? That should have taken all of your weight off the QD.
Also try unclipping the rope, then unclip the draw from the bolt.
josh
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climbingnurse
Feb 16, 2004, 10:31 PM
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That's pretty funny. That was the 2nd aid pitch I ever lead (pitches 3 and 4 were the Lost Arrow Spire Tip, but that's a whole other story). Me and a buddy spent the better part of the day there and had a bugger of a time with the whole thing.
Anyway, we eventually came to the conclusion that the best way to do it was to keep the bottom ascender really low (so as to prevent it from getting sucked into the draw) and then weight the top aider above the bolt/draw you are trying to clean. This way there is no weight on the draw/bolt being cleaned. The trick is keeping the lower jug low enough that it doesn't get sucked into the bolt/draw being cleaned.
And yeah, we did it in the middle of the summer, so we had PLENTY of yayhoos watching us. Highly amusing (for them)!
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okinawatricam
Feb 16, 2004, 10:52 PM
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I would have to completely agree with reaiding the entire pitch. I like to use the grigri instead of tying in. I also use Fifi hooks instead of binners at the end of my aiders, this makes the task much more simple
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sfclimber
Feb 16, 2004, 11:44 PM
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In reply to: ...Were you weighting ONLY the top jug? That should have taken all of your weight off the QD. Also try unclipping the rope, then unclip the draw from the bolt.
Yes and no. I was trying to weight only the top ascender, but when doing so I would swing too far out to reach the quickdraw (it's a very overhung ladder). As a result I would have to put _some_ weight on the lower ascender (or pull on the rope below the draw) just to get me back close enough to the bolt to reach the draw.
Once the draw was in hand, unweighting the lower ascender would cause me to swing out again thereby weighting the draw in my hand and making it difficult to clean. Unclipping the rope first would risk (if I lost my grip) swinging away from the draw and losing it and would not change the problem that I was still weighting the draw in my hand.
So far it sounds like re-aiding is a viable solution. I will also try my fifi/nut tool trick and see if that helps. I'm still open to any other suggestion that come from this thread.
Thanks again to all.
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the_alpine
Feb 17, 2004, 12:41 AM
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Here's the answer:
You had a few options actually....
1 - relead the entire pitch
2 - Back to the BASICS baby...
a)clip upper ascender above piece
b)before you fully weight upper piece firmly grab rope below lower jug.
c)with the rope below your lower jug firmly in your hand, release the cam teeth of the lower jug.
d)hold the cam teeth open and let the rope slide through your hand and through the lower ascender
(good thing you're wearing gloves).
e)you should now be below your next piece with all your weight on the upper jug.
3 - on super steep routes sometimes a gri-gri works best in lew of the bottom ascender.
4 - always lead and never solo
So the bottom line is you apparently know not very much about cleaning. Don't sweat it though, just get on a wall and you'll figure it out.
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sfclimber
Feb 17, 2004, 1:16 AM
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In reply to: Here's the answer: You had a few options actually.... 1 - relead the entire pitch
2 - Back to the BASICS baby...
a)clip upper ascender above piece
b)before you fully weight upper piece firmly grab rope below lower jug.
c)with the rope below your lower jug firmly in your hand, release the cam teeth of the lower jug.
d)hold the cam teeth open and let the rope slide through your hand and through the lower ascender
(good thing you're wearing gloves).
e)you should now be below your next piece with all your weight on the upper jug.
3 - on super steep routes sometimes a gri-gri works best in lew of the bottom ascender.
4 - always lead and never solo
1. Yes, releading is a valid suggestion.
2. Back to BASICS baby is exactly what I was doing. It failed due to the fact that in step e) of your description the horizontal distance between the wall and the hanging climber was too great to reach the draw for cleaning.
3. Nice suggestion, as it would be easier than sliding the lower jug down, but it does not change the fact that in the end the hanging climber is still too far from the wall horizontally to reach the draw.
4. Ahh, wouldn't that be a treat!
In reply to: So the bottom line is you apparently know not very much about cleaning. Don't sweat it though, just get on a wall and you'll figure it out.
Sounds to me that my understanding of basic cleaning is consistent with your own. But rather, it was what to do when basic cleaning proves ineffective that I was lacking. Based on your advice and that of those that preceded you, I will now consider releading in the future.
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the_alpine
Feb 17, 2004, 2:07 AM
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SFclimber-
You didn't mention in your original post that you tried the traditional cleaning method. The bolts on the LeConte boulder are definitely far apart, but you should still be able to clean them. Did you flip upside down and try?
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joe
Feb 17, 2004, 2:32 AM
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In reply to: Best way to ascend overhanging bolt ladder?
free climb it.
or did you mean the "easiest" way?
pstcnt++
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vegastradguy
Feb 17, 2004, 3:58 AM
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i'm not anyone who should claim to be an expert on cleaning, BUT after learning the single jug, grigri method of cleaning, i'm not inclined to try the two jug version.
lowering off to the piece above with a grigri instead of keeping a jug low is just easy, and you always keep a 2nd point on the line. i'd give it a go, and see what you think.
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sfclimber
Feb 17, 2004, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: SFclimber- You didn't mention in your original post that you tried the traditional cleaning method. The bolts on the LeConte boulder are definitely far apart, but you should still be able to clean them. Did you flip upside down and try?
the_alpine,
I attempted to detail my actions, but apparently I was not clear enough. I did try to flip upside down too. That got me VERY close, but still not quite close enough. My reach just wasn't enough.
Thanks for your tips.
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bigdan
Feb 18, 2004, 6:08 AM
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For myself, I'd stick with 1 jug/1 grigri. For steep stuff there's no comparison. You can unload the piece in question far easier than when you're dealing with the twisting, inefficient second jug.
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timpanogos
Feb 18, 2004, 8:45 AM
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I've been working on extremly overhung in door gym routes/roofs.
I use the grigri lower, with fifi to upper jug trick, but have found that extremely overhung stuff is still much easier/faster to simply re-aid the darn thing.
Sure is a good phsyical workout to try and clean it however! Definately harder/slower to clean than lead.
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