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mtengaio
Feb 16, 2004, 7:20 PM
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I'm looking for inexpensive ice tools to start ice cimbing with and found some Stubai Hornets for a good price – can anyone give me a recommendation on these tools? Being new to this aspect of climbing I'm a little green on specific brands but I like the fact that these tools have curved shafts. Yay or nay on the Stubai's?
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cfnubbler
Feb 16, 2004, 7:30 PM
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I can give you a recommendation- buy something else.
There are plenty of reasonably priced tools out there these days. If you buy the Stubais and stick with the sport, you WILL be buying another pair of tools sooner rather than later. And even if you don't you'll never find replacement picks for the Stubais.
-Nubbler
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alpinerocket
Feb 17, 2004, 5:25 PM
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I would recomend agaist these tools. I have used them before and they suck. you will be miserable. the just dont pack enough punch. If you want a cheap tool I would recomend the Bull Dogs from Omega. I have a pair, they make a good alpine axe and third tool. For me, they actually climb quite well.
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alpinerocket
Feb 17, 2004, 5:27 PM
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In reply to: I'm looking for inexpensive ice tools to start ice cimbing with and found some Stubai Hornets for a good price – can anyone give me a recommendation on these tools? Being new to this aspect of climbing I'm a little green on specific brands but I like the fact that these tools have curved shafts. Yay or nay on the Stubai's?
I also see you are from Idaho. If you can get to Salt Lake City stop into IME near REI. They have a consignment area with alot of tools around half price.
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mtengaio
Feb 17, 2004, 6:56 PM
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Yeah, I'm heaaded to Red Rocks next month and was planning on stopping at IME just for that purpose. So, no go on the Stubais – what about DMM's Cirque tools?
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blackmountaineer
Feb 17, 2004, 10:01 PM
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I've seen a lot of older (Axar) or beginner/cheaper tools (Pulsar, Rage, Shrike) on ebay lately. Every once in a while, they'll go fairly cheap (under $180 for the beginner tools and around $250 for the better tools.) Just keep watching.
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redpiton
Feb 17, 2004, 10:43 PM
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When it comes to ice, you will be getting new gear in two years anyway because you will want better toys. With ice, the gear really helps out performance. Use a buddy's tools in the beginning to get a feel for what you like, then move on to your own.
Don't do the stubai's... they wouldn't be my recommendation.
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hema
Feb 18, 2004, 7:12 AM
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If you want DMM tools get the Fly's (lightweight), Predator (heavy duty) or Xeno (extremely cranked). Forget the Cirque, as it is basicly a mountaineering axe, the same goes for Raptor.
Get some Clearance Sale tools or 2nd hand ones, like CM Axar, CM Quasar, CM Quark, BD Rage, DMM Predator, DMM Fly, Simond Naja or Simond Naja Cup.
So basicly you have two choices, try a million tools for performance and swing, then decide and get a tool that suits you or get a pair of tools and adjust your swing accordingly.
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bradhill
Feb 19, 2004, 12:02 AM
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OK, I'll dissent here. I actually own a pair of Hornets, and I'm on my third season of climbing ice with them. I think they're fine, and a bargain at the price. I've probably done 100 pitches with mine, and my friends and I all think they've earned their price several times over.
I've climbed on a lot of tools and, while they're not Cobras, they're not half bad, either. It's obvious half the flames here are from folks who've never even used them - they don't have replacable picks, for instance. You'll need to do a tune up on the picks as described in Jeff Lowe's Ice World, but then they climb great and clean easily. If you're climbing in ultra cold conditions you would want something heavier for the really hard ice, but most of the time I prefer a lighter tool.
The only thing that really sucks about these tools are the leashes. Definitely get new ones.
Maybe you can find a better bargain on something else, but even the used tools I see around go for twice the price of a Hornet. I'd spend that money on good ice screws and screamers instead and upgrade in two or three seasons when you know what you really want out of a tool. (leashless? radical curve? heavy? straighter and lighter for alpine cross-use?)
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hawgdrver
Feb 19, 2004, 12:38 AM
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cfnubbler
Feb 19, 2004, 3:49 PM
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In reply to: they are a quintessential Stubai product. By that I mean that in the event of a nuclear war, the only things that will survive will be the cockroaches and my two Stubai axes.
And Keith Richards. Keith Richards would definitely survive all but a direct hit. And maybe even that.
As for the comment about the Hornets not having replaceable picks, I must have confused them with another Stubai tool I HAVE used, though it was long ago.
At any rate, the lack of replaceable picks would IMHO ABOSLUTELY rule them out for waterfall ice climbing. I don't even need to see the tools! I replace picks every season, often more than once. At that rate, the Hornets would quickly become useless for anything other than picking my teeth.
-Nubbler
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