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iamthewallress
Feb 27, 2004, 9:32 PM
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I almost always climb better when I'm psyched to go full bore, but am not really attached to the outcome of my effort.
Most recently I was on a climb that was very difficult for me, and at two different placed I could not bring myself to trust a particular move. I kept up and down climbing checking it out, in the first case returning to my stance and in the second case hanging on my piece. Both times I decided that I wasn't sure that I could do the move, and felt that the fall was too risky. Both times as soon as I made this decision, I found my body pulling through the moves, almost as if guided by a force other than my conscious, doubting mind. The best rationale that I can come up with for this, was that I'd let go of some pressure to send, so I could pull through my doubt. Or maybe not...
Anyway, here are the questions..Is there anything that you do to remain unattached to a particular outcome when you are climbing? If you see your ego getting involved in the outcome, what do you do to distance your feelings from the effort? Usually when I think about distancing myself from an outcome, it's the negative outcomes that I think about. Have any of you seen an improvement in your climbing by also removing attachment (i.e. not letting yourself get too psyched or prideful) from positive accomplishments as well? Does anyone else have a hard time sacrificing attachment without sacrificing joy?
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dirtineye
Feb 28, 2004, 1:25 AM
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One way to be unattached to the outcome is to cliimb one move ( or sequence) at a time, and focus fully on that particular move (or sequence).
Its sort of a put your hand to the plow and don't look up idea. Or the old, "A long journey begins with the first step.", thing.
I find that if I concentrate on whatever I need to do to make one more move, I never really think about the outcome until it has happened.
I don't really think of climbing a route in terms of success or failure, I think if it ans doing something I enjoy and want to do.
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unabonger
Feb 28, 2004, 10:15 PM
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It seems like a paradox to have a goal, and then relinquish attachment to it. Rather than see it as a paradox, I think its really a matter of definition of "goal" and "attachment". Say we choose a climb--we want to do it in a certain style. Identifying a goal does little toward reaching it.
The real work is in the doing--the stepping and reaching and protecting. It is during those activities that the mind must detach and reduce and be completely present in the now, the immediate. It is difficult to give your best to the delicate, difficult, scary high step you are about to do if you're mind wanders to the top--your original "goal".
In effect, for me, the "goal" is a matter of infinite reduction to the present moment. Meditation and yoga (especially breathwork) are two activities that practice your ability to do this and I've found have direct application to climbing.
UnaBonger
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artm
Mar 1, 2004, 8:55 PM
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I originally sent this to Mel via PM because I usually avoid making posts.
However she pointed out that the purpose of this forum is to share and deseminate what we've learned via the RRW process, so share I shall.
In reply to: I almost always climb better when I'm psyched to go full bore, but am not really attached to the outcome of my effort.
In reply to: Both times as soon as I made this decision, I found my body pulling through the moves, almost as if guided by a force other than my conscious, doubting mind. The best rationale that I can come up with for this, was that I'd let go of some pressure to send, so I could pull through my doubt. Or maybe not....
Once I'd fallen and lost the redpoint I could finish the route, find the gear I couldn't reach and see holds that I knew were there but simply didn't see in time.
In reply to: Is there anything that you do to remain unattached to a particular outcome when you are climbing?
In reply to: If you see your ego getting involved in the outcome, what do you do to distance your feelings from the effort? Usually when I think about distancing myself from an outcome, it's the negative outcomes that I think about.
In reply to: Have any of you seen an improvement in your climbing by also removing attachment (i.e. not letting yourself get too psyched or prideful) from positive accomplishments as well?
My insidious ego still needs to beat down a bit before I can attempt something along these lines.
In reply to: Does anyone else have a hard time sacrificing attachment without sacrificing joy?
No.
I seem to have rediscovered some of the Joy of climbing for the sake of just climbing ie; physical movement.
I'm speaking mainly about losing the attachment to the success of the outcome here NOT attachment from the accomplishment
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andy_reagan
Sep 19, 2004, 10:41 PM
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Very nice post, Art. Apart from applying a bump to this thread (which I think is good), I wanted to add my opinion.
I climb (or attempt to anyways) on a spiritual level. For me, climbing is deeply satisfying insofar as the process is concerned. Its great topping out or reaching the chains, but the meat is in the actual seconds, minutes, hours, spent on the rock. I shift importance from the completion of the activity to the activity itself. Through this lens I am able to get a lot more out of each session, and not feel dejected if I didn't top out that problem or get to the chains of that route.
edit - this is a great thread for me to think about as I recently had an experience which exlempifies the importance of not placing too much attachment on the success of finishing a route. I was working a long traverse (about 80 feet) which was giving me quite a bit of trouble. I started really focusing on how great it would be when I finished it and could put it behind me. Well, armed with this mentality I headed out one, two, three different sessions to attempt a redpoint. Each time I pumped off and cursed, rested a few minutes, then repeated. I was getting frustrated. It took me a few days to come back with a mentality of detachment, or a focus on the rock (which was beautiful) and the moves (which were fun). With this attitude I climbed through without falling.
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unabonger
Sep 27, 2004, 3:28 PM
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In "Zen and the Art of Archery" the student spends an enormous amount of time shooting arrows at a haybale a few feet away, and without a target, to avoid attachment to the results of the shot. Thus the mind is free to concentrate on the process of drawing and releasing the bow.
Could one use bouldering in the same way? Find an impossible boulder problem and don't finish it. Just strive to do one or two moves.
UB
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jt512
Sep 27, 2004, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: In "Zen and the Art of Archery" the student spends an enormous amount of time shooting arrows at a haybale a few feet away, and without a target, to avoid attachment to the results of the shot. Thus the mind is free to concentrate on the process of drawing and releasing the bow. Could one use bouldering in the same way? Find an impossible boulder problem and don't finish it. Just strive to do one or two moves. UB
I've done it with sport routes. One problem is that sometimes the "impossible" starts to seem possible.
-Jay
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unabonger
Sep 27, 2004, 8:19 PM
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I know what you mean Jay, with bouldering its more reasonable to find something wildly more difficult, if it becomes possible, well, its easy to move on to something that's truly, unreasonable.
Some training addicts around here practice "threshold bouldering", when peaking in the training cycle. If you can do the move, its too easy. Sometimes we use "wieght off" spotting to at least get a feel for the move.
UB
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