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akicebum
Mar 15, 2004, 9:21 PM
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So here's the issue. I have some fantastic routes that are ripe to be climbed this summer. I have easy access in and out, but not off. All of these routes are ones that I would like to climb as free as possible as they are all on and unclimbed face and seem to be linkable crack systems. The problem is that where these routes are located gets a ton of rain and weather forecasts are just about worthless. Are bolts reasonable? The added weight isn't much of a concern, but if were to return to the climb in good weather and ascend without needing the bolts I would feel robbed. At the same time if things go south, then bomber anchors would make a world of difference.
The routes in question all top out and have a relativley easy walk-off.
So I guess the question is, go for broke and say screw the bolts and sacrifice the rack if need be, or pack the bolts and desecrate a virgin face because of bad weather? I hate to be preparing to fail, but I have been climbing here too long, not to be aware of the consequences of going out unprepared.
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j_ung
Mar 15, 2004, 9:31 PM
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Sounds like you've already made up your mind and are hoping for someone to change it. Tell me where this virgin face of yours is located and I might have an "opinion". :twisted:
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angry
Mar 15, 2004, 9:37 PM
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Your clarity is lacking. Are you saying that this area has good rock and good placements, but it might rain before you can top out, thus making it necesary to bail on your gear?
Are the cracks bolted in Lumpy Ridge? I've never had a complete day there without rain or snow. Are the cracks in Cirque de Towers bolted? That's a sprint just to beat the rain. What I'm saying is this, if it takes good gear, don't bolt it, this precedent has been set. You can bail off a couple stoppers, maybe just a sling in the right place. You won't need to leave cams. If you are seriously considering drilling a crack for the sake of a few stoppers, well we should have a talk.
One other posibility is that the rock in this area is so soft that it will melt away in the rain, your post eludes to this. I don't think that's the case, but if it is, bolts aren't the anwswer either, maybe a grappling hook.
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j_ung
Mar 15, 2004, 9:37 PM
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Oops, forget it. I just checked your profile, and there's not much chance of me seeing AK anytime soon.
So here's the opinion:
You say the place is in a weatheprone area, right? If want a popular line that will see more repeats, place the bolts. If you want a bold ascent and feel like the few people who know what they're doing will go get it regardless, don't drill.
Hope that helps.
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brutusofwyde
Mar 16, 2004, 2:37 AM
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In reply to: Are the cracks bolted in Lumpy Ridge?
Crack of Fear. And try leaving stoppers on that one to back off.
Brutus of Wyde
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berserk
Mar 16, 2004, 3:32 AM
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Ethics?: DON'T BOLT CRACKS!!!!!!!
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angry
Mar 16, 2004, 3:33 AM
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Touche
What's this trend of bolting OW's anyway? Last I did Kor-Ingalls the OW was bolted. It used to be a sh*t bolt or two, now it's a sport climb. Pissed me off. I didn't clip them, I had pro. It's just so f-ing lazy. Bolt a big crack cause you don't have big gear. I'm going to go bolt Supercrack and maybe Wiggins I, I don't quite have the gear to do it without.
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gunked
Mar 16, 2004, 6:01 AM
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I'm in agreement. Bolts are a last resort. If your ass is on the line in a storm and you have to get down without a way up, then bolt it on the way down if you have to. leaving some gear behind is the better choice IMO. I always carry a few slings and throw-away biners for such an occasion. It'll just you give you fuel to want to do it another day and retrieve your gear.
Anchors, however, require some thought. I believe in bomber anchors. Some people don't mind belaying off of a crap anchor. To me that's Russian roulette. If you can't get in at least 2 bomber multi-directional pieces, then maybe one bolt is an option if the belay can't be moved to a better location. There's nothing wrong with a short pitch every now and then.
-Jason :D
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akicebum
Mar 16, 2004, 6:39 AM
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Well as always you get a variety of responses. One, the rock quality varies (some igneous with intermitnet metamorphic), and this is one of the concerns. Second, the last route put on this range was 20+ pitches and climbed with a 70m rope, they climbed free up to 10d. It was a beautiful line and boltless. A few miles away is the wall I am interested in, it is virtually untouched, but I am unsure about the rock quality and it looks to be 700+m. So bailing on gear is going to mean my rack. But, I kind of made a decision (at the gym strangely), I am going to say f*ck'it and give it a go w/o and if it sends good, if not, well at least it will be clean and available for someone else to climb. Or I'll send, go home, and get bent. Either way, I'm going to have some well deserved fun.
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j_ung
Mar 16, 2004, 9:29 PM
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And thus, a local ethic is born. da daaa BA-DAAAAAA... dum dum dum dum...
Have a ball, homeslice! Send that biatch.
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robmcc
Mar 16, 2004, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: But, I kind of made a decision (at the gym strangely), I am going to say f*ck'it and give it a go w/o and if it sends good, if not, well at least it will be clean and available for someone else to climb. Or I'll send, go home, and get bent. Either way, I'm going to have some well deserved fun.
Now that's ethics. Well done. My next beer is going down in your honor.
Rob
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gunked
Mar 16, 2004, 9:42 PM
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j_ung that was hilarious. I was singing along :lol:
Okay, that's a BIG wall. Have a blast. I didn't realize it was so big. Bolt the belays if you have to but try not to leave your entire rack behind.
Good Luck!!!
-Jason :D
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slavetogravity
Mar 16, 2004, 10:03 PM
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In reply to: Touche What's this trend of bolting OW's anyway? Last I did Kor-Ingalls the OW was bolted. It used to be a sh*t bolt or two, now it's a sport climb. Pissed me off. .
If I remember correctly there are two bolts on the chimney pitch of Caselton Kor-Ingalls route. They where put there to replace the quarter inch rusted bolts that where put there during the first accent. If new bolts where placed on any of the pitches you'd have to get in line to chop them. So don't panic, the world isn't going to hell, the bolts where originally put there buy the FA party.
Some one correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a year and a half since I was there last.
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fitz
Mar 17, 2004, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: Well as always you get a variety of responses. One, the rock quality varies (some igneous with intermitnet metamorphic), and this is one of the concerns. Second, the last route put on this range was 20+ pitches and climbed with a 70m rope, they climbed free up to 10d. It was a beautiful line and boltless. A few miles away is the wall I am interested in, it is virtually untouched, but I am unsure about the rock quality and it looks to be 700+m. So bailing on gear is going to mean my rack. But, I kind of made a decision (at the gym strangely), I am going to say f*ck'it and give it a go w/o and if it sends good, if not, well at least it will be clean and available for someone else to climb. Or I'll send, go home, and get bent. Either way, I'm going to have some well deserved fun.
Take extra nuts and runners and have a blast. If someone is just in it for topping out, they should go to a sport crag. When you are in it for the adventure, you make great memories no matter what the outcome.
-jjf
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