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alpineghost
Mar 29, 2004, 5:48 PM
Post #26 of 32
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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Land belongs to everyone but being Jewish I know I would get offended if people started climbing the Temple Mount (if possible).
However, I wonder where the limit is since anyone could start saying that this or that place has a personal religious signification and there would never be an end to it.
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coldclimb
Mar 30, 2004, 3:53 AM
Post #27 of 32
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Registered: Jan 14, 2002
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coldclimb moved this thread from Gear Heads to Regional Discussions.
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thewyseclimber
Mar 30, 2004, 5:09 AM
Post #28 of 32
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Registered: Mar 3, 2004
Posts: 179
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I haven't climbed in the Garden yet, but I plan to this summer, as I'll be in the area for a few months. The way I see it is this...it's public property now, and therefore open to all people to use as they wish, within the law. Ideally, this would mean respect for the land and for others who wish to use the land, and have the same rights to it as you do. As is evident throughout history, ideals never function as they should. Invariably, someone comes along to screw things up. In this case, it could be obtuse climbers, uninformed locals who wish to criticize the climbers, or your average tourist who doesn't know anything about anything. They're just passing through for the pictures ("Ooh, let's get a picture of us kissing in front of the Kissing Camels!").
We all have to live together in God's creation, and hopefully we can respect each other as we respect the land. In response to the "Indian" issue, I wish people could read into the topic before passing their judgment, as I wish would be the case on all topics. Before you open your mouth, you should at least know what you're talking about. The terrible treatment of the Native Americans by the invading Europeans was deplorable, and nothing short of brutal genocide. I wish I could recall the shocking number of treaties the government made and proceeded to break with the various tribes throughout the country. If only some organization like the UN could put our government on trial for war crimes committed in the past 400 years, like we have attempted to do with despots like Milosevic. How was his brutal and methodical extermination of a people any different than our own, besides the difference in time periods? Hopefully we can all agree to respect the beliefs, traditions, and lifestyles of those we come into contact with.
Climb on.
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lachendro
Mar 30, 2004, 6:45 AM
Post #29 of 32
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Registered: Oct 28, 2002
Posts: 33
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Honestly, I've climbed in the Garden for the last few years, probably well over a hundred days and have never noticed any indians nor have I heard of climbers being harrassed by them. Were you in anyway disrespecting the land; ie leaving trash, spreading chalk like butter on toast, or in anyway doing something that would piss an indian off?
If not......
Guess you got lucky :?:
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nealric
Mar 30, 2004, 7:35 AM
Post #30 of 32
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Registered: Feb 21, 2004
Posts: 147
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I have seen a native american playing the pan flute on top of a rock at the garden- he didnt comment on my climbing.
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barnes33
Mar 31, 2004, 1:26 AM
Post #31 of 32
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Registered: Dec 15, 2002
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when i lived out there i climbed at the garden often. the only people i ever saw were the annoying tourists snapping pictures of you while their even more annoying children are running around littering. why didnt the indian yell at them?
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cin
Mar 31, 2004, 1:44 AM
Post #32 of 32
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Registered: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 105
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In reply to: Personally, I have sat in church and spent most of the time looking at possible routes up the stone walls (no, im not kidding) |
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