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marcallain
Apr 6, 2004, 1:11 PM
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What do you all use that tiny hole on a Fifi hook for? Does it have a particular use ? Or just there for many different uses?
Just curious as I have never used that hole and am wondering what its use is.
Thanks
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brianinslc
Apr 6, 2004, 2:02 PM
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In reply to: What do you all use that tiny hole on a Fifi hook for? Does it have a particular use ? Or just there for many different uses?
Was used, "back in the day" (yo), to haul your aiders up on. Euro and 50's technology.
Technique, I believe, was to use the fifi on a piece of gear with stirrups attached (sometimes metal rungs) with the hole in the top of the fifi used for the keeper cord (in case you dropped the aiders or for hauling back up if you let them dangle below you). Since most folk now use a daisy chain, the hole in top isn't really utilized any more.
Funny that the hole is still there, but, almost too small for what folks now use them for (hauling gear or haulbag off an anchor, etc). Verm made a fifi hook that has a hole big enough for a biner. Nice.
I prefer a fifi, if I'm going to use one, without the hole. I used a file to shave mine off my BD fifi...(fits in smaller places better...like the bottom hole of an ice tool if need be...).
Brian in SLC
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epic_ed
Apr 6, 2004, 2:46 PM
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One use is to tie a small diameter cord (3mm) through it on a short length so you can yard on it to get it out of/off of whatever gear it is hooked onto without unweighting the piece. When top-stepping, you want to pop the fifi off the piece you're standing on (because it keeps you too close to the piece to top step) it is usually a PITA to get the fifi to come off the biner or sling it's hooked on. Grabbing this little cord allows you better leverage to pop it off the piece.
Pete had a photo of his somewhere in the index. I'll post a link if I can find it.
Ed
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junnos
Apr 6, 2004, 3:37 PM
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Probobly not what is was made for, but I know of people that use it for raps. Since they don't want to leave a biner, they would put the fifi on a bolt and rap off of that. Wild huh? Then they would have a little bit of cord tied thru the hole, and girth-hitch it around the rope. That way, when you pull the rope in the correct manner, the fi-fi will pop off the bolt. No gear left behind.
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timstich
Apr 6, 2004, 3:53 PM
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That's exactly what the small hole is made for - to attach a thin cord to yank the fifi off of a rap ring or similar perch.
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jv
Apr 6, 2004, 4:01 PM
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Put a piece of cord or 1/4 inch webbing through that hole, enough to make a loop. Hang your aiders, or some gear, from a loop tied through the big hole at the lower end of the hook. Put the fifi in a bolt hanger. Now, from above, pull on the loop tied to the little hole and watch what happens: the fifi lifts out of the hanger from above. That's what the little hole is for.
So you can retrieve the fifi from above by using that little hole on the top of the fifi. I use it to leave gear behind mid-pitch with light haul line attached so I can haul it back up later, and for cleaning traverses between widely spaced bolts without leaving a biner behind.
JV
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copperhead
Apr 7, 2004, 4:09 AM
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Swage a small loop of #3 cable through the hole and use the fifi to tag gear when soloing, as described above. Swage a loop to the bottom hole as well.
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bsmoot
Apr 7, 2004, 4:29 AM
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Yes, If the hole in the fifi was bigger & stronger, you could haul the pig from it. You wouldn't need anyone down at the belay to free it. That would be very helpful for speed climbing or soloing.
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coylec
Apr 7, 2004, 11:43 PM
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In reply to: One use is to tie a small diameter cord (3mm) through it on a short length so you can yard on it to get it out of/off of whatever gear it is hooked onto without unweighting the piece. When top-stepping, you want to pop the fifi off the piece you're standing on (because it keeps you too close to the piece to top step) it is usually a PITA to get the fifi to come off the biner or sling it's hooked on. Grabbing this little cord allows you better leverage to pop it off the piece. Pete had a photo of his somewhere in the index. I'll post a link if I can find it. Ed
The picture is here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=9693.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...mp.cgi?Detailed=9693
This picture, by hans, shows a Kong adjustable fifi. 'Standard' fifi hooks would be done the same way.
coylec
edit: photo caption and credit
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copperhead
Apr 8, 2004, 4:37 AM
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If I am not mistaken, the setup pictured is for leading and the top piece of cord is a pull-tab and not a clip-in loop. The fifi setup mentioned earlier for tagging has a full strength clip-in loop on top. There are at least two uses for a fifi. I tried one of those adjustable fifis last year, per the doctor’s recommendation, but quickly became frustrated with it; maybe it was the type of cord, I dunno. Back to the bascis – what works – old school daisy and a Petzl Spirit biner…
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timpanogos
Apr 8, 2004, 6:05 AM
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I learned on the adjustable fifi so, you know it's what you learned on
it is very handy if you grigri clean - on those that you really need to lower out on - the adjustable length can be very nice here
I had settled down a bit on using it on 2nd steps on ladders, until I moved to fish adjust daisies, which have about a 3" bar tack + 2" buckle only gets you within about 5" - but I will continue with this because of the superior reach on them - different story
so on harder 2nd stepping I'll hook up that adjustable fifi - I like it.
for 1st stepping the ladders - you need more length and back on adjustable daisy seems good to me.
The adjustable can be a cluster pain if you don't tuck it in somewhere when not in use.
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coylec
Apr 8, 2004, 8:05 PM
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Chad is right -- I've got ONE aid CLIMB down and I've already realized that the fifi will get caught on everything.
copperhead - are you using 6 or 7mm cord? Pete recommended 6mm (even though it says to use 7mm) that was "slippery". I've been a little frustrated by it as well. Chad - what kind of cord are you using.
The Solo tag rack is another place where fifi hooks are used.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...mp.cgi?Detailed=3360
I came across this picture and thought I should post it as well. I may not be an expert in aid climbing, but I can use a search engine like a mofo.
coylec
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timpanogos
Apr 8, 2004, 8:48 PM
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its a bit hard knowing or finding "slippy" 6mil,
I indeed got 6mil - problem is - you got to use the thing a while to get it to loosen up a bit.
I assume many get discussed with the darn thing before it "breaks in" - hopeing my does not get too broke in and I have to start over.
btw that's petes "tag rack" advanced topic, ya might want to wait on that one for awhile.
Chad
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maldaly
Apr 8, 2004, 8:59 PM
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I've never been much of an aid guy, but the few times I have been aiding, I used a 3mm loop through that hole to hang the thing on my rack or harness when not in use. It hangs much cleaner that way. When they hang up-side-down everything in the world gets caught in it...
I'll never forget the movie of Marco Pedrini soloing the Maestri Route on Cerro Torre. On the bolt ladder he clipped his rope to the fifi, tied and prussik through the top hole and attached that to his rope about 2' from the knot, tied in to the other end and yarded up on each bolt using a QD with no bottom biner for a hand leash. He just let the loop of rope hang slack with the fifi through the eye of a bolt at the bottom belay. When he got to the top of the pitch he just pulled his rope and the prussik attached to the top of the fifi let him retrieve it. Not bad for 1976 (or whenever)
Mal
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coylec
Apr 8, 2004, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: btw that's petes "tag rack" advanced topic, ya might want to wait on that one for awhile. Chad
True dat. I read it, I understand the idea, but I don't have enough gear to justify it. Maybe I can tag a sandwich.
coylec
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whipper
Apr 9, 2004, 4:43 PM
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wow, a bunch of answers from guys who dont know the answers. the hole is there to facilitate solo hauling while you rap down to clean the pitch. but you have to rig it similar to petes tag rack and have it where you dont haul using the thin cord. A scary thing since the bags hang from the hook as you climb, then get lifted of as you rap. but all should be backed up and your conection to the haul line shoud be able to break away, of course if you have to ask what it is there for you wont understand a word of this,
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jv
Apr 9, 2004, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: wow, a bunch of answers from guys who dont know the answers.
JV
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brianinslc
Apr 9, 2004, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: wow, a bunch of answers from guys who dont know the answers. the hole is there to facilitate solo hauling while you rap down to clean the pitch.
Nope. Was never meant or designed for that use at all.
Fifi hook gained popularity pre 60's, and maybe pre 50's (see On Rock and Snow (or the later edition of On Ice and Rock and Snow) by Rubberfat, BMC book "Handbook of Climbing, and Doug Scott's "Big Walls).
That little teeny hole was only ever meant to be used for a small diameter cord. Fifi hooks were used in lieu of carabiners on etriers. The small hole was for a cord to keep from dropping the etrier and because it made retrieval easier.
Standard aid "back in the day", prior to the Yos method went one of two ways. Double rope technique with the partner "taking" the rope on every placement (whats that Spencer Tracy movie...ha ha...good footage of this method in action), or, use of etriers, sometimes with a fifi hook instead of a carabiner.
I picked up a Vermin fifi made with a large diameter hole on the top and bottom. Easy to clip a biner into either hole. Now that bugger is designed for a load.
Anyhoo...back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Brian in SLC
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ammon
Apr 15, 2004, 5:06 AM
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In reply to: (whats that Spencer Tracy movie...ha ha...good footage of this method in action)
The Mountain.
Wow, some of these answers sends chills down my spine. Most are right on, though.
Use a bright colored 4m cord and tie a pig-tail to the small hole (like mentioned) so you can easily remove it when you're making a move higher.
I would NEVER trust that hole with my life, although I've used it to pull a light bag off of an anchor while speed soloing. Just make sure your on solid ground. A good whipper with your haul line around a flake, edge, horn, or even a bolthanger could cause it to dislodge from the anchor.
Think of a giant funkness..... your body would be the pin upon removal.
Cheers, Ammon
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billcoe_
Apr 15, 2004, 5:31 AM
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Malcom, you're back from the heart attack thing?
Glad you're OK.
Sorry to change the subject.
B
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Deleted
Apr 15, 2004, 8:52 PM
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[quote:fa0718f25c="whipper"]wow, a bunch of answers from guys who dont know the answers. the hole is there to facilitate solo hauling while you rap down to clean the pitch ... of course if you have to ask what it is there for you wont understand a word of this[/quote:fa0718f25c]
no offense, whipper, but i have to agree with brianinslc and jv on this one.
i would suggest you familiarize yourself with the history of climbing gear before making such an iron-clad pronouncement. and not only because of the possibility some gear might have been around longer than your ten years (re: your bio) in this sport, but especially in light of your cocky tone and choice of words in your closing sentence.
by the way ... you'll find the hole was put there -- originally -- to facilitate the hook's removal from a piece.
regards,
geo
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karlbaba
Apr 16, 2004, 2:38 AM
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If you want to use the hole to facilitate retreiving the haulbag while soloing you owe it to yourself to attach the hauline to you via some method that will break under heavy loads.
Like making a loop of duck tape on the back of your harness and clipping the haul line to that, so that if you inadvertently pull the bag off it's fi-fi anchor, you just lose the bag and not your life.
Peace
karl
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whipper
Apr 16, 2004, 3:25 AM
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geo, thank you for pointing out my flaws in a civilized manner, I rarely post and was in a foul mood that day, no excuse, I have never used the small hole for that as I have never had that problem (removeing the fifi) but I stand corrected(even though I have used it to solo haul)
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Apr 16, 2004, 3:40 AM
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no thanks necessary, whip, old boy. there's never a good enough reason to behave in an uncivilized manner.
continued good climbing.
regards,
geo
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ammon
Apr 16, 2004, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: If you want to use the hole to facilitate retreiving the haulbag while soloing you owe it to yourself to attach the hauline to you via some method that will break under heavy loads.
That's right. I use a thin key chain loop that pulls apart if weighted. But, I rarely use this technique, because usually you have to go down to the anchor anyways to clean the belay and gear.
Cheers, Ammon
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