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akclimber
Apr 13, 2004, 9:45 AM
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Evidence. :lol:
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swede
Apr 13, 2004, 10:52 AM
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Every type of pro has got advantages and disadvantages. Tricams are my favorite for pockets and horisontal cracks. They are also quite useful as a backup if you have better use for active cams elsethere.
Cams are quicker to place and works in shallow flares also (in which case I would never use a Tricam).
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flashsixteen
Apr 13, 2004, 12:22 PM
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My rack has no cams and a bunch of tricams ... because I can't afford to buy cams and when I get the $50 I see it as 3 tricams or a cam ... if I can find it on sale ... from a cheap manufacturer. Although cams certainly place much faster, I have yet to climb where a tricam wouldn't work in place of a cam, unless, like swede said, it is a shallow flare. I don't know what the climbing is like in Alaska, but I think you will be okay with all passive pro to start. I haven't had a problem and I have been climbing with a passive rack for a year. It might take me a little longer and maybe not as efficient, but I'm climbing. Just don't get anything above a 2.5, the regular blue colored one. Then they start getting heavy, go for a hexes that size and above. After you get enough of a rack to climb you can start saving up for cams...which is what I am doing.
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rocket
Apr 13, 2004, 2:00 PM
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I love tri-cams, but have found Friends to work really well in fist-wide cracks. They cost only $35 at most places, whereas a tri-cam's cost is based upon its size and they start to get bulky in the 3" range and up.
I'm always learning, and have found a cam to give me a few more options.
One good thing about meeting climbers at the wall is to ask them about their gear and then watch them in action and placement. Later you can ask them why they choose one piece over another.
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rokshoxbkr19
Apr 13, 2004, 2:55 PM
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wow, you should not be building a rack yet. Man, I just gave one of those dickheaded comments I hate. Sorry dude. I wouldn't say tri-cams can go wherever cams can, but I would say that many routes can be lead on only passive pro. I would also say that it is a lot harder many times and much more time consuming, plus out west on those 100 foot splitter cracks with no bottle necks it is super hard. However, cams haven't always been around, but people have been trad climbing well before they had bomber cams, so climb on and good luck
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bigdrop
Apr 13, 2004, 3:21 PM
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Hey, I’m also currently building my first rack and so far have been pleased with my decisions. Here is what I have so far:
Black Diamond Stoppers #4 thru' #13
Black Diamond Wired Hexs #6 & #8
Wild Country Rock centric Hex nuts #6 thru' #9
Metolius TCUs #1 thru' #4
If i had to give something back.. i think it would be the TCUs.
In reply to: so is it really necessary to have active cams?(besides the weight saving feature)
Correct me if i am wrong but for the same range of placements. Hexs are about 1/3 the weight and 1/4 the price of its "equivalent" cam.
~jc
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mandrake
Apr 13, 2004, 4:59 PM
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Cams make protecting easier and cleaning faster. Just starting out, you should be leading pretty easy stuff and spending a lot of time evaluating placements, so you could probably get away without cams for a little while. In any case, nutting can be a bit harder to learn anyway, so focusing on passive pro at the start is not a bad strategy, assuming you're climbing easier routes with good nut and hex placements (ie not parallel cracks).
However, as you start to push your way into harder grades and/or longer routes, I think you'll appreciate the additional flexibility and speed that cams offer.
I like tri-cams, but they are more stable in the smaller sizes and keep an eye on the direction of pull. Plus, they're harder to place with one hand and need a little rugosity to catch the point on. But, they're great in horizontals. If you're on cracks with good variations, hexes can be bomber as well, but I predict that once you get cams, the hexes and tricams will sit in your closet.
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davidji
Apr 13, 2004, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: also using pitons and the like...
Don't go wild with the hammer. Read this classic article?
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salparadise
Apr 13, 2004, 5:28 PM
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Registered: Sep 18, 2003
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Get some cams, already!
What do you have against them?
Oh yeah, they are expensive and heavy, but they go in real quick and go many places where nothing else can. If you can find the money, your life is going to be much, much nicer if you have some cams on your rack. Certainly worth staying home for a few nights and saving the bar money in order to buy a few (I recommend BD #1,2, and .75 to start if you could only buy three). No matter how long they have been climbing or how good they are, every climber finds themselves at that point where they are pumped, scared, and about to fall out of a crack at one point or another. It is so nice to have some cams that you can sink real quick and in that moment you will be glad that you spent the money.
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madmax
Apr 13, 2004, 5:42 PM
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Registered: Oct 23, 2003
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In reply to: I have yet to climb where a tricam wouldn't work in place of a cam...
Well, obviously you haven't climbed many places. Come to southeast Utah, climb one pitch, and then we'll talk.
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paintrain
Apr 13, 2004, 5:43 PM
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Registered: Feb 17, 2004
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What mandrake said.
I still keep the first 3 tricams on my bloated cam infested rack. Most people hate them and they are a pain to clean, but when placed properly they are bomber. Super crack at Indian creek was originally lead with Hexes although the thought of doing it that way now makes me want to grow bigger hands..
A lot of things were led on hexes, but gear evolution has occured.
Get a starter rack that you allows you to get up things. Then save your money for those god awful have to love them expensive cams (there are quite a few out there now that are reasonably priced, relatively speaking).
PT
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coylec
Apr 13, 2004, 5:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: also using pitons and the like... Don't go wild with the hammer. Read this classic article?
I undestand your question 'cause i'm journeying into aid. Hammering is usually not accepted, except on aid routes. That being said, the best way to climb said aid route is still clean. Until you start aid climbing, don't worry about the hammer, chisel, heads, bashies, mashies, pitons, rurps, bongs, beaks, angles, lost arrows, et al. Before you worry about pile of worms, worry about traditional 'clean' protection (cams, nuts, hexes, tri-cams, big-bros, slings, et al).
The decision to use hammered placements is a serious one that should not be taken lightly nor without view of the consequences.
Nailing (driving pitons with a hammer) is an acquirred skill. At this time, I do not use hammered aid (though I'm looking to learn). Some suggest practicing on choss rock (crap no one wants) before you're on the real deal. Also, when removing, tap it up and funk it out (jerk it out with a special wire attached to the hammer) to create a clean nut placement in the piton scar.
coylec
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madmax
Apr 13, 2004, 5:51 PM
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In reply to: Super crack at Indian creek was originally lead with Hexes although the thought of doing it that way now makes me want to grow bigger hands..
I heard that Wiggins simply dropped the hexes down SC until they wedged somewhere. Now that's a inspiring piece of gear, huh?
Leonard Coyne told me they bashed in hexes to protect the start of Coyne crack.
You know what, forget those silly cams.
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jimdavis
Apr 13, 2004, 7:07 PM
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I bought some Tri-Cams and triend pluggin' a few in on a pitch.....I've never fumbled with a piece of gear so much in my life. It is a pain to get a tri-cam, especially the small ones, in a crack that you can't readily see.
I tried getting a pink, then a red, into the crack facing to my left, and it was an undercling. Yeah, try using one hand, pulling on an undercling, and crooking your neck while fiddling with a tiny little tri-cam in a crack you can barely see. After 5 mins of that i said screw it and climbed up another 5 feet till i could seat a nut, then a cam.
I've tried to put off cams cause they're so expensive, trying to go nuts and tricams, but I can't fathom not using cams on some stuff. I love to plug nuts, but cam's are fasting becomming my new best friend. Then next paycheck i get is going towards Blue-Yellow Aliens and a #3 Friend.
Cams are great, just don't rely on them exclusivly.
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david.yount
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Apr 13, 2004, 7:17 PM
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Comprehensive Passive Starter Rack
#0.5, #1, #1.5, #2 CAMP Tri-Cam (smallest four sizes)
#6 - #11 Black Diamond Hexes (largest six sizes)
#6 - #13 Black Diamond Stoppers (largest eight sizes)
#4 - #5 Trango Brassies
#4 - #6 Hugh Banner Brass Offsets
23 pieces that are all 10+kN providing maximum range with no overlap. the smaller two HB Brass Offsets are rated 8kN but they are very very useful. BD Stoppers are inexpensively copied by ABC and Smiley, nice to save money. i prefer "unslung" hexes, those with cords rather than those with wires.
David.
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akclimber
Apr 13, 2004, 7:45 PM
Post #16 of 19
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Registered: Mar 17, 2004
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Evidence. :lol:
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micahmcguire
Apr 13, 2004, 11:25 PM
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In regards to climbing up here in Alaska, particularly in the Chugach or Talkeetnas:
-Cams are the most valuable bits of gear I carry, not just because they are the most expensive! They seem to get placed more often than any other type of pro I carry. They are very versatile, strong, and easy to place.
-Tri-cams are fairly useful, but typically much less reliable (or should I say versatile?) than a good cam. They are harder to place, but a good placement can be extremely strong. I find I use the smaller sizes of tri-cams much more often than the bigger ones (the same goes for cams too), although it is fairly common to find yourself needing bigger active pro also.
-Nuts are practical and useful up here too. They are light, inexpensive, and you can easily clip dozens onto one biner, making them easy to carry on a climb.
-Pitons have been the biggest waste of money when compared to anything on my rack. They are very heavy, and are often much weaker than other pieces you could use. I think I have used about 4 pitons since I started climbing in Alaska. I have placed hundreds of everything else.
-Hexes, while often a nice thing to have, aren't typically too useful up here. Other pieces usually work better.
-Slings! You'd be suprized how often you have to make an anchor by slinging some horn or deep crack or something up here, especially in the Chugach. Carry lots of slings of various lengths.
-Chocktubes and other exotic inventions-Don't be silly!
Anyways, that advise comes from years of climbing trad in Alaska. Hope you found it useful.
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akclimber
Apr 14, 2004, 2:05 AM
Post #18 of 19
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Registered: Mar 17, 2004
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Evidence. :lol:
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brianinslc
Apr 19, 2004, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: Super crack at Indian creek was originally lead with Hexes although the thought of doing it that way now makes me want to grow bigger hands..
Nope, they had one or more Lowe cams in addition to the hexes.
Brian in SLC
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