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willingspirit
Apr 15, 2004, 11:23 PM
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Tough situation.
I suspect the jealousy stems from the fact that your wife probably senses that Jane is into you, rather than from her climbing ability. (If she were jealous of Jane's ability, she'd also be jealous of anyone you climb with who is better than your wife).
Jane may be interested in you, or behaving as if she is. And you probably aren't picking up on these signals (but your wife is...it's kind of a Mars/Venus thing)
I'd do my best to not climb alone with Jane. Even better, don't climb with Jane unless your wife is with you as well.
Your wife is likely to interpret reluctance to put limits on climbing with Jane as lack of love or concern for her.
So I'd try to figure out what circumstances your wife would be comfortable with you climbing with Jane and adhere to those.
Good luck.
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cantbuymefriends
Apr 16, 2004, 11:48 AM
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I feel your pain, madyak :(
It sounds like your wife have got the "I've got to be EVERYTHING for this guy!", which often seems to be inherent in our culture. And when she feels that she can't be that, somehow it's YOUR fault and not hers...
You have tried to talk to her. Unfortunately, jealousy is a feeling, and most feelings can't be defeated by logic or reason. The more you try, the more she will think that she's right! "He's trying real hard to convince me. Why, he MUST have something to hide!"
In reply to: Is there any way that I can make my wife happy in this situation or must I tell one of my friends that I simply can't hang out with them any more (pun not intented)?
Probably not. Probably yes, sorry. I think that MAYBE with some real heay counseling you may overcome the problem, otherwise I'm afraid Amber's right
In reply to: b) jane will be pissed if you stop the friendship c) your wife will be be pissed if you dont d) from the femme perspective, your decisions will place "value" on these relationships, whether you want it to or not.
Good luck, buddy. You need it.
(Sorry if I'm rambling. I have not a very successful streak with women. I've made alot of mistakes. But I still don't know what half of them were...)
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adventureman
Apr 16, 2004, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: My main climbing partner is married. I talk to his wife all the time, we laugh and have a great time. I think their marriage kicks ass because she climbs occasionally but mostly they have seperate activities and are happy doing that.
My climbing partner is married as well, as am I. So this works out well. We were a little bit nervous about meeting for the first time, but once we let each other know that we were married, it was a big load off and we could concentrate on climbing.
If your spouse is jealous, that's something to talk out with them. My wife tends to be the jealous type (I'm all hers, and she knows it :)), but she also trusts me and knows that I behave myself. That's not to say some guys I know *don't* behave themselves, especially when their wives aren't around. Trust and respect are very important to make a marriage work; without those, you've got nothing.
But I digress...the point is, if she's jealous, don't ask us...talk to her. I don't see a reason to get rid of a climbing partner unless your wife has a serious objection (not "I don't like her" but *why* doesn't she like her) and unless you start feeling something different about your partner.
And talk to "Jane" as well; if you let her know the situation and that you want to make sure you stay friends (and that's it) and that there are no problems, chances are she'll understand and help you out.
Not that you said this is an issue yet, but...I agree with another poster who stated that long trips with "Jane" aren't appropriate. Hell, one overnight trip isn't appropriate in my book, even if you're in separate tents or hotels or whatever. Take your wife along, have "Jane" take a friend as well, something like that. Why put yourself in a compromising position that could come back to bite you in the ass?
To sum up...talk to your wife, don't take unnecessary chances, and figure out what your priorities are. Things'll sort themselves out.
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stellanole
Apr 16, 2004, 6:59 PM
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Several really good points have been brought up. Jealousy, in a mature relationship between two individuals who share love, trust, and respect for oneanother--SHOULD be warranted. I agree, that if your wife can't give you a VALID REASON why she is feeling uncomfortable about your relationship with Jane--then it is your wifes issue to discover the source of her feelings before she starts making requests of you. my 2cents is on the basis that you are not THAT GUY in the story we've all heard or experienced...that your love for your wife is as committed and loving as you have conveyed to us in your post, and that you DO NOT have feelings for this woman beyond friendship.
I agree that you need to ask yourself, truthfully, whether your behavior or emotional feelings towards Jane would ever (if your wife knew) be cause for her concern. Ive always thought a good measure of 'appropriate' behavior with respect to your marriage/relationship, was to ask yourself in the absence of your partner---how would your wife/husband/bf/gf FEEL if he/she were in that moment with you. Would he/she be uncomfortable or feel threatened? Odds are, slipping yourself into the others shoes, has a way of making a situation you have difficulty understanding or validating suddenly VERY CLEAR.
The fact that your wife is a beginning climber...and you spend time with this woman who is climbing closer to your level--kinda sucks. Its natural to feel a little insecure when the person you love spends time with another of the opposite sex who not only shares a love for said acitivity, but does it WELL! thats the icing on the cake. lol. Just imagine this for a moment...
Your wifes 'thing' is mountain biking. You are not much of a biker...but you are slowly being introduced to it. She loves challenging terrain and has a male 'friend' who she bikes with. Maybe hes attractive maybe not...but hes spending time with your wife sharing in an acitivity that makes her really happy. And to be honest, thats really all that matters. In a perfect world But our world is one where the infidelity rate of married couples is 80% and the divorce rate 50% (im quoting oprah here...lol). The fact that your wife is out doing something she loves that makes her happy no matter WHO she is with...should make you happy....but it isn't a perfect world. We have all at some point in our lives experienced the pain and awe of being betrayed by someone you love. IT SUCKS!!!!!! This doesn't mean that we all have a right to walk around making false accusations and having irrational insecurities or fears of our relationships with our partners....It just means that we have to build solid relationships on constant communication with eachother. The minute you start closing doors and bottling feelings you begin contibuting to a breakdown in that open dialouge which ultimately sets the relationship up for failure.
If your wife has cause to be suspect of the relationship you have with Jane and you can imagine through her eyes, why the relationship with Jane just isn't right, or not cool....than you need to do whats best for your marriage. You made a promise to your wife to love and honor her. If you KNOW that when you are out at the crag with Jane that you exude love and honor for your wife through your actions and feelings...then your wife has no REASON to feel jealous and this is her issue--and as her husband it is your duty to help her work through those issues. I would encourage her to talk to someone about it. But make sure she feels your support.
I believe jealousy is an innate human quality we all posess. The key is learning how to manage it in your relationship/marriage. At the end of the day...only you and your wife can work this out. Just be honest and truthful to YOURSELF and to the woman you have committed the rest of your life with. You both deserve that.
~s
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adventureman
Apr 16, 2004, 7:06 PM
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Very well said, stellanole! :D
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Apr 16, 2004, 8:41 PM
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Wow, so many good points. Rob strikes me as very wise. :D I agree with a lot of what Beth & Sapphire said too.
It seems like the consensus is dump the climbing partner before risking the marriage, which I don't agree with. I think it's unfair of your wife to expect you not to hang out with her, if she does. Jealousy is almost always a result of insecurity. So it's not about Jane, but about how your wife feels about herself and your relationship. Work on that. If this jealousy is a big enough issue to have you dump your climbing partner, I think it's a symptom of other problems and those will continue throughout the marriage. Do you want to be asked to give up more in the future? I'm not saying don't compromise, but having to drop a friend is a bit much.
In my experience, when I am in a happy, functioning relationship, I don't get jealous (at least not enough to be a problem). When some part of me knows something is wrong, that's when those feelings rear their ugly head. I think if you make sure your wife knows all these things that you wrote in your post, and over time nothing changes, maybe there is more going on.
Just my 2 cents- good luck. I hope it works out.
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moabbeth
Apr 16, 2004, 10:42 PM
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Great post rockdancer. Very true.
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Apr 16, 2004, 11:25 PM
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Thanks Beth. :)
Just PM'd you.
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katydid
Apr 19, 2004, 7:27 PM
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Moving to General per user requests.
k.
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katydid
Apr 19, 2004, 7:27 PM
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katydid moved this thread from The Ladies Room to General.
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wirlwind
Apr 19, 2004, 11:29 PM
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hook jane up with someone
problem solved
:lol:
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offwidthclimber
Apr 19, 2004, 11:55 PM
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i can't believe no one's mentioned the obvious solution...
THREESOME!
duh.
or ditch the rope and take up bouldering... need for partner, gone.
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scclimber
Apr 20, 2004, 12:09 AM
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saw that one coming.
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meataxe
Apr 20, 2004, 12:38 AM
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A lot of people have posted stuff that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, this situation doesn't call for a lot of sense...
Wife trumps climbing partner
Might not make sense, but that's how it has to be.
I've seen two sides of this situation. One girlfriend was dreadfully jealous of my female cycling partner. We never had more than a close friendship, but eventually it led to a breakup with my gf. (My friendship with my cycling partner had a lot more staying partner.)
On the other side of things, I went on vacation for a week with my buddy's girlfriend... we both liked windsurfing, and he didn't, so he stayed home. No big deal... no jealousy. As it turns out, with just the two of us, we really got on each other's nerves, so I never went on an extended outing with her again. With my buddy around, we always got along... just weird chemistry that way.
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lokionnitrox
Apr 20, 2004, 1:06 AM
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you could introduce me :wink:
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thrasher
Apr 20, 2004, 1:09 AM
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This is a no-brainer...do yourself and your wife a favor and don't climb with Jane alone. It is a matter of showing respect for your wife.
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ginerbiner
Apr 20, 2004, 3:50 AM
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Yes, lots of good advice in this thread.
My favorite climbing partner of all time, for two years, was Tony. I climbed hard and graceful and had the best time ever with Tony. Then he got a girlfriend who always acted strangely with me. She didn't really like climbing but tagged along with us anyway. The tension was still there. I was always nice to her, even trying to buddy up with her as a sista. But it was as it was and I respected her unspoken feelings by laying low and practically bowing out of my partnership with Tony. His relationship with his girlfriend was more important TO ME than my climbing relationship with him was (even though to this very date I've never had a better time nor climbed better). He and I are still friends and I went to their wedding a couple of years ago. Tony's wife is now sweet as pie with me and we have an unspoken respect for each others place and comfort levels.
Sometimes we women have to see the value and weigh the circumstances, whether we are the climbing partner or the significant other. I sometimes feel that men can't be as good as a "weigher." I don't like it when women turn it into an unspoken competition of who is worth more, but this is a normal tendency in the animal kingdom of humanville. No matter how liberal one spouts to be, in coupledom most tend to be traditional, despite themselves. Golly, if a woman is willing to take vows with you and pop humans out of her very body, and all that for better and for worse stuff, then that says a lot. Stand by your woman, reassure her with actions in addition to words. After an established emotional "safe place" has been achieved, perhaps you and Jane can occassionally climb together. If Jane is truly your friend she would understand this and be gracious about it.
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endrizzi
Apr 20, 2004, 4:00 AM
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In reply to: I have to vehemantly disagree with all the people who are telling you to get another partner! As an old diehard feminist, all I can say is, this is sexist bull. I am a woman who has been climbing with men other than my husband for 20 years. I've never been attracted to my other male partners. If I ever DO become attracted to one of them, or if one of them ever started to hit on me, THEN I'll stop climbing with them. That is MY responsibility to keep my marriage stable and happy. ....... Phyl
I never thought I'd ever be agreeing with a diehard feminist but you
go girl.
dreez
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action
Apr 20, 2004, 3:50 PM
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i see it this way...if there is nothing going on, then keep climbing with her. if your wife cant handle it...so be it ....she has to deal with it. TRUST...thats what this is about...BUT not about trusting you! she is basically saying that she does not trust herself. people seem to look at situations and think about what they would do or are capable of doing...thus the trust issue is on her...maybe she does not trust herself, therefore it makes her uncomfortable when you are in that situation.
just a thought.
p.s. if she wants to be unhappy or leave you because she doesnt trust you...well you have not done anything wrong and maybe you would be better off with someone else.
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fiend
Apr 20, 2004, 3:58 PM
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Women are inherently retarded when it comes to jealousy issues.
I blame it on chemical inbalance.
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adventureman
Apr 20, 2004, 4:01 PM
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In reply to: Women are inherently retarded when it comes to jealousy issues. I blame it on chemical inbalance.
That's a bit harsh...men can be just as bad if not worse than women when it comes to jealousy.
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yay_chris
Apr 20, 2004, 4:27 PM
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I've seen it...
married man climbs with single chick...
married man eventually divorces wife...
man now with the chick.
It happened with this couple at the gym. Shitty.
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timstich
Apr 20, 2004, 4:37 PM
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Married man spends more time with female workout partner than wife.
Wife divorces workout obsessed man.
Now ex-wife dates man kicked out of house by philandering ex-girlfriend.
New man digs pond in woman's back yard and has his grammar constantly corrected.
Pope restates his stance against birth control.
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fiend
Apr 20, 2004, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Women are inherently retarded when it comes to jealousy issues. I blame it on chemical inbalance. That's a bit harsh...men can be just as bad if not worse than women when it comes to jealousy.
hah! I knew that was going to get quoted before I deleted it.
You're right, men can be just as bad and that's why I removed it.
It's just plain stupid to have that kind of jealousy though. It doesn't mean we can stop ourselves from thinking bad things but you have to have trust in your partner and realize that they're with you for a reason and not going to leave you for someone else just because they share a common interest.
You can't spend your whole relationship worrying that the other person is going to abandon you.
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pawilkes
Apr 20, 2004, 4:41 PM
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Get Jane to marry someone else, that should fix the problem
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