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zareh
Apr 28, 2004, 12:28 AM
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I'm just starting out in Aid Climbing and I'm confused which to get (Etriers ,Speed Wall Ladder or Big wall ladder from Yates). I'm planning on doing Washington's Column in September. Also, I'm 5'7" and I'm not sure which length to get. Any help would be appreciated. :D
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bsignorelli
Apr 28, 2004, 12:46 AM
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I just got a set of the Yates Wall Ladders and I think they are freakin great. Super comfy although I've only stood in them for a short while.
Oh and I got the 7 step ladders because they were sold out of the six step version when I called to order them.
Bryan
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zareh
Apr 28, 2004, 1:30 AM
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A more accurate question would be when would you use a etrier and when would you use a ladder. Is it a personal choice or does it depend on the application?
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epic_ed
Apr 28, 2004, 1:34 AM
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Personal choice. Most people find that stepping up in the ladder style is easier than climbing the staggered steps on an etrier.
As for which to get, you'll find a search turns up (OK -- it might turn up some info. the search feature really blows) several threads discussing aid ladders. As a general rule, anything made by Yates for aid climbing is the shizzle. Among their many products, I have the big wall ladders and they are significantly better than the ladders I own from Metolius.
Ed
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euroford
Feb 13, 2006, 11:43 PM
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i'm bumping this thread back up, and hijacking it in the process.
(wow, i acutally used the search function!!!)
i've had a set of yates wall ladders that got 'lost' by a friend, i replaced them by a set of metolius etriers that i HATE, so i'm going to take the plunge and buy either a set of yates wall ladders or speed ladders.
since i've had a set one before, i'm well aware that the wall ladders are like 'the best thing since sliced bread', but i want to debate the merrits between them and the speed ladders. obviously the speed ladders are cheaper, and lighter, those are two big pluses in my book.
but, they arn't that much cheaper, and really how much lighter are they? yates doesn't list a weight, so could somebody perhaps drop one of each on a scale?
then its a matter of decieding if the weight diffrence is worth the comfort diffrence, could somebody with a bit of experience on both chime in to that effect?
i found out the other day thaty sliced bread was invented like 10 years after the invention of the pop-up toaster. i really wouldn't have thought it would take that long before the connection got made. go figure.
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flamer
Feb 14, 2006, 6:12 AM
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Man I've used alot of different aiders now!! First off the Ladder style is the only way to go, IMHO.
Second I'm really liking my "Speed wall" jobs. In my Book 1" webbing is plenty of comfort. I can't tell you how much lighter exactly, but anything is good when you're aid climbing! Plus they are less bulky.
Also I wouldn't get more than a 6 step ladder, in fact I prefer 5. I mean seriously...how far can you reach?
Go with the speed wall.
josh
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epic_ed
Feb 14, 2006, 6:43 AM
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Well, I now have a pair of the speed wall ladders, too. Less bulk translates to less cluster fuck. For multiday stuff (haven't done that in a while) I use a pair of big wall ladders with a floating speed wall ladder as my floater. They are mighty nice. What kind of system are you using? One pair? A pair and a floater? Since I use a three aider system I probably won't ever go with just the speed wall ladders, but if I switch to a two aider system I'd strongly consider going with just the speed wall. They have a lot of the nice features of the big wall without the bulk.
Ed
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euroford
Feb 14, 2006, 12:11 PM
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thanks guys, the curious in me would still like somebody to put them on a scale, but overall you've done a good job of swaying me over to the speed walls.
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texplorer
Feb 14, 2006, 11:20 PM
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I've used all the styles mentioned above (ok my etrier style was the BD). Here are my thoughts after a dozen walls.
The etiers suck
Yates bigwall ladders are nice and comfy but have a fat spreader bar. Sometimes if your in a tight corner the wide steps can get stuck in the crack. Still, these are really nice. I have a pair of my own that I use for most walls.
Yates speed ladders are the best in most respects. While not quite a comfy as the bigwall ladders they are still nicer than most. Their benefits are that they are lighter, have a smaller spreader bar and just seem to be sleeker. Their major drawback is that the spreader bar is not anchored so it will spin (unlike the bigwall ladders which the bar is riveted to the webbing). This is not a big deal but just a nuisance sometimes.
So, my opinion is to go with the speed ladders.
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ricardol
Feb 15, 2006, 6:30 PM
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i would do the following
2 speed wall ladders
1 alpine etrier (or aider) for the floating one -- or a metolious emergency aider .. (it bunches up into a little bag) ..
.. the 3rd aider rarely gets used so it should be as light and small as possible ..
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iamthewallress
Feb 15, 2006, 7:11 PM
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I'm repeatin Texplorer a bit, but are the advantages and disadvantages as I seem them...
Etriers:
Advantage: Lower profile b/c there is no spreader bar. This can be better both for free climbing and aiding in corners, chimneys, and other tight spaces.
Disadvantage: Harder to climb and stand in one ladder w/ two feet.
Harder to get your feet in them b/c of lack of spreader.
Harder to grab/high step for same reason.
I find they get tangled on themselves in suprising ways.
Speed Wall and Big Wall:
Basically the same, but the Big Wall is bigger. This is an advantage or disadvtage depending upon what you like. If you're small like me, you might get as much comfort out of reduced weight and bulk as you do out of fatty steps...espcially if there is free climbing to be done.
The main advantage of these is that they are super easy to get into and climb because of the spreader bar and stiff steps.
The disadvantage of the bar is mentioned about. The wide and stiff steps can also sometimes insert themselves in cracks and you need to downclimb to liberate them. I find that this is most likely to happen when trying to exit the ladders for free climbing or when stepping over a roof...Murphy in action.
My personal set up is to run 4 ladder, a Metolius Pocket (alpine) ladder and a Speed Wall on each daisy. If I expect to mostly be free climbing w/ bits of C1, I'll just use the Pockets and leave the Speed Walls at the belay to keep the crappage out of my way.
You may want to fine tune your set up based upon whether or not the route you are looking at on Washington's Column is one that has a lot of free/mixed climbing or is one that is mostly aid.
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jaybird2
Feb 16, 2006, 4:55 PM
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I've repeated it once, and I'll repeat it again...
RAS is ETS
Least tangle :wink:
Easy in :)
Highest stepping :D
Most stable :shock:
Quite a few superlatives there, i.e. can't be beat. And PLEASE... PLEASE do not complain about hard to get, because that is INCORRECT! But if you people don't convert then we are gonna have to homemake the trees also because Russ may make them anymore when he runs out of rings.
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styndall
Feb 16, 2006, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: I've repeated it once, and I'll repeat it again... RAS is ETS Least tangle :wink: Easy in :) Highest stepping :D Most stable :shock: Quite a few superlatives there, i.e. can't be beat. And PLEASE... PLEASE do not complain about hard to get, because that is INCORRECT! But if you people don't convert then we are gonna have to homemake the trees also because Russ may make them anymore when he runs out of rings.
Where do you get the cuffs?
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jaybird2
Feb 16, 2006, 7:04 PM
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Make 'em. Very easy (& cheap) to do, there are even pics on this site. I will post pics of my babies in a couple days. You can also buy them from a company called Ural if you want to spend more. My partner has those and they work just fine. Anyone that complains about them... well, I have no idea how they make it through a pitch of aid. :cry:
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skinner
Feb 16, 2006, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: As a general rule, anything made by Yates for aid climbing is the shizzle.
I'll give that a big "yup".
In reply to: Well, I now have a pair of the speed wall ladders, too. Less bulk translates to less cluster f---. For multiday stuff (haven't done that in a while) I use a pair of big wall ladders with a floating speed wall ladder as my floater.
I agree, if you can afford it, I'd go for the Big Wall Ladders, and something lighter for a secondary pair.
Personally I like a really light, but ladder-style secondary aider. I'm not sure if they even make them anymore, but I have (what I think is called) a "karakourom aider" made by On Sight Equipment in Squamish BC. What I love about them is that they fold up like an accordion into a neat little bundle with the top loop exposed to hang them from. You just undo the Velcro tab and they drop down ready to go.
In reply to: The main advantage of these is that they are super easy to get into and climb because of the spreader bar and stiff steps.
A couple points to ponder..
(1) I also have a pair of "Alpine Aiders" with the triangular shaped steps. Even though they have the stiffener sewn into the steps, I find that the steps are either facing the wrong way or constantly spin away when I try to step in them, could be just me though :wink:
(2) I'm not sure if you will be climbing ONLY in warm weather, personally I have a habit of over-estimating my free climbing ability while wearing double boots and mitts and inevitably have the ladders sent up. I can actually get my feet into the Big Wall Ladders w/o bending down to pull the step over my boot. As petty as that may seem, it becomes tiring after a while with 3-4 layers of clothing on.
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euroford
Feb 16, 2006, 10:24 PM
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thanks for the tips everybody, allas my decision was made for me. mgear.com had the wall ladders in stock and could get them to me by friday, so wall ladders it is.
will i be climbing in warm weather? i hope so, but i'm heading for the diamond so...... :x
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euroford
Feb 17, 2006, 10:53 PM
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sweet. mgear pulls though, and i got my new aiders. these are nicer than the last wall ladders i had, they must have slightly evolved over the years. bitchen stuff!
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