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jt512
May 7, 2004, 6:29 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The same device you'd use for a one-rope rappel. Assume I'm rapping with my ATC, will the EDK pass through it?
No, nor will it need to. When you tie two ropes together to rappel, the knot stays up at the anchors. The rope doesn't move, rather you rappel down the rope. When you get to the ground you unattach the rope from your ATC, and pull the rope down.
Have you confused rappelling with lowering? It's important to get the terminology straight. Miscommunication with your belayer about whether you intend to rappel or be lowered can be fatal.
-Jay
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paulraphael
May 7, 2004, 6:49 PM
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For all the reasons cited, i've been using the edk exclusively for a while now. I don't want to get crazy and sell it to people as "completely safe," because nothing is, and also because the edk is a paritcularly sensitive knot. In other words, its safety is much more dependant on being tied correctly than most other knots. There are also a lot of ways to tie it incorrectly and unsafely (too loose, crossed strands, tails that are too short). Tests show that its strength varies a lot with factors like rope diameter, stiffness, wetness, knot quality, frozen/unfrozen, etc., also .... so be extra vigilant.
There are some knots being proposed as alternatives to the edk ... ones that share its advantages but that are more robust. Has anyone used either of these?
http://jost.gudelius.bei.t-online.de/spst.htm
(tests and analysis by Edelrid)
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oldsalt
May 9, 2004, 9:57 PM
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jt:
My mental image of the situation is a 2-pitch rap, or some situation where the rap device allows the knot to pass through it. I understand that the EDK will pass through a Figure-8, but will it pass through an ATC or GriGri?
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dirtineye
May 9, 2004, 10:18 PM
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Well I'm not JT, but in multi pitch, with 60 meter ropes. you can rap 200 feet without having to pass a knot.
IF you need to pass a knot, then get the proper instruction on doing this. Te nutshell is one or prussiks, a backup knot and a controlled release friction knot along with a rappel backup.
See, it's complicated, you need to have someone who really knows how show this to you.
No, in 8.1 and up diam rope, a rappel rpe joining knot will not pass through an atc. Same fro a gri-gri on the correct diam ropes for a gri-gri
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jt512
May 9, 2004, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: jt: My mental image of the situation is a 2-pitch rap, or some situation where the rap device allows the knot to pass through it. I understand that the EDK will pass through a Figure-8, but will it pass through an ATC or GriGri?
The knot will not go thru the ATC and certainly not a grigri. But my point is it doesn't have to, ever (OK, there's probably some exception to this in aid climbing or rescue work), but to do a multipitch rappel you don't pass the knot. You tie the knot at the anchor, and attach your rappel device below the knot. This gets you 200 feet down with 2 60-m ropes. If that doesn't get you to the ground. You rig another rappel anchor at the bottom of the first rappel, tie into it, pull your ropes, thread them through the new anchor, and rappel again. Repeat as necessary. No passing of knots is involved.
-Jay
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coclimber26
May 9, 2004, 11:26 PM
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The EDK will NEVER in any situation have to pass through ANY belay device. the figure 8 does invert at lower loads than the overhand but the retraced 8 is acceptable for joining two ropes of different diameters as well as the doubble fishermans.
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oldsalt
May 12, 2004, 5:33 PM
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Thanks Curt, JT. I see what you mean.
btw: I don't do anything outdoors on my own that I haven't been checked out on by someone who knows what the heck they are doing. Excellent advice.
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brianinslc
May 12, 2004, 6:33 PM
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In reply to: The EDK will NEVER in any situation have to pass through ANY belay device. the figure 8 does invert at lower loads than the overhand but the retraced 8 is acceptable for joining two ropes of different diameters as well as the doubble fishermans.
EDK will pass right through a rescue 8, and even some of the larger standard figure 8's. Folks also use these to belay with upon occasion.
Can be a handy thing, in some situations.
-Brian in SLC
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