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bouldering-bumm
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May 27, 2004, 10:52 PM
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Sorry if this has already been poasted, so just give me a link:
What are the best bolts to get, how do you bolt them (rappel?), use a drill right? what kind of drill? Other info I need?
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slobmonster
May 27, 2004, 10:57 PM
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You can hire out a licensed route-bolter at about $250/day. Labor only, parts and T&E extra.
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xcire
May 27, 2004, 11:34 PM
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bolt gun the fastest way but they are spendy
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jakedatc
May 28, 2004, 12:09 AM
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Ya.. but with a bolt gun you can free solo your route in the middle of the winter when no ones around.. quite convenient really
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trad_mike
May 28, 2004, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: Sorry if this has already been poasted, so just give me a link: What are the best bolts to get, how do you bolt them (rappel?), use a drill right? what kind of drill? Other info I need?
What people are saying is:
If you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it.
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gavin
May 28, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Please don't take this the wrong way but having seen bolts at crags that are just plain wrong, this is totally not something that you should be asking for instruction over the net. It took me years to finally get into establishing sport routes 'cos its definately a hands-on slow learning process.
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roughster
May 28, 2004, 1:16 AM
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In reply to: Sorry if this has already been poasted, so just give me a link: What are the best bolts to get, how do you bolt them (rappel?), use a drill right? what kind of drill? Other info I need?
I won't say, "If you don't know you shouldn't be asking" and I actually really hate those kinds of comments :( The best thing you can do is start asking around at your local climbing area and see who does the developing. Introduce yourself to them, bring about $100 and offer to buy the hardware for a new route and ask if they would mind helping you develop it.
Most developers are psyched to show the tricks of the trade to new people if the people are actually willing to learn and realize upfront that routes cost $$, ALOT of $$ to develop. I usually try to plan on around $100 per route.
10 bolts = (roughly since you can get better deals if you know how) $3 per bolt + $3 per hanger. = $60.
Anchor setups are usually around $20 =$80. And then you really should treat your new friend (the developer) to a few pitchers of beer afterwards to show your thanks $20 = $100!
There are plenty of other expenses that often get over looked: paint for the hangers to make them camo, drills, drill bits, wrenches, brushes, hammers, jumars, etriers, RBs or 1/4"ers, etc..
Not only is it expensive, it is hard work. Prepare to get grimy, dirty, exhausted, sun burnt or alternatively freezing, have bees sting you, spines, nettles, poison oak/etc on your hands, under your nails. Bloody knuckles, bashed up knees, I hope you like hiking out to the crag with 80+ lbs pack of stuff, heheh :)
I think by now you get the picture, and if it doesn't scare you off, then do what I said above about finding out who develops and welcome to the club!
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socalbolter
May 28, 2004, 1:45 AM
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roughster put it in a nutshell.
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alpinerockfiend
May 28, 2004, 1:48 AM
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In reply to: Sorry if this has already been poasted, so just give me a link: What are the best bolts to get, how do you bolt them (rappel?), use a drill right? what kind of drill? Other info I need?
"poasted"? Come on! T0-!
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catbiter
May 28, 2004, 2:01 AM
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Scary :shock:
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honeyhiker
May 28, 2004, 1:05 PM
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http://www.fixeusa.com/
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honeyhiker
May 28, 2004, 1:10 PM
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It doesn't sound like you have any experience. Find a mentor first. Bolting responsibly and properly is more complicated than you would think and you can't learn how to do it from reading. Stick to the boulder in your background instead on practicing where other people would suffer from your mistakes.
Chris
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overlord
May 28, 2004, 1:13 PM
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if youll be rapbolting, its a good thing to climb the route on TR a couple of times first and check for good clipping positions. then have someone who has a different climbing (ideally someone whos smaller or taller, a woman...) style climb it and check those positions.
once youve done this you can drill. if you just rappel and drill, youll most likely end up with horrible clipping positions and the route will suck even if it does have killer moves.
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honeyhiker
May 28, 2004, 1:25 PM
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That's how we do it. It helps my boyfriend see the how the climb works when I get on it and helps to judge the grade as he's a much better and stronger climber than I. TR really helps work the moves for bolt placing so you can ensure good clipping. Its also important to keep the grade as consistent as possible too.
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nature
May 28, 2004, 1:35 PM
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nice post roughster. Though I won't go as far as to say you shouldn't be asking on the internet. There's a wealth of knowledge to be had and if you get past the trolls under the bridge you just might learn something. $100 is a great place to start though I like the $250/day (plus greenies!) idea better myself - I'm for hire :P.
I do want to add to the thread by answering the part of the question asking how (rappel?). My opinion is that it depends on the nature of the rock. I'm all for a sporty time of putting routes in on lead. Hooks on good rock can be a blast. If the rock is not good for hooking and there is no other way (to steep to hold on) than you rap them in. I've been doing a lot of route development at Winslow Wall in Arizona. Only one route went in on lead and that's because someone stole my rope that was set for a rap!
We spot a line, access the top of it usually from above, decide on where the best spot for the anchor should be and put in the anchor. From there we top-rope the route and tick along the way where the bolts should go. We also spend a ton of time cleaning the route of loose rock. We'll kick at flakes and even pry at things if we feel it is borderline. We'll never do so with the intent of enhancing anything. Sometimes holds get better, sometimes they dissappear altogether.
We'll then take a step back and think about the route as a whole and maybe re-think the placements. If we're happy we'll then jug or rap the route and start drilling. If later we decide that any bolts are in the wrong place we will move them. If one needs to be added, or one can be removed, we'll do that as well. I'm not in to grid bolting and making every clip where the last bolt is at your shin. Bolts are very strong so you can take good whippers on them safely. There is a reasonable spacing for bolts and typically the climb helps guide you to those spots.
One other thing, and this is more for the folks already doing development. I've modified my Bosch. The battery is dead so I bought two 7Amp hour 12 V batteries for about $9 each. Wired them in parallel and hooked them up with phat speaker wire. Way cheaper than replacing that $100 battery. when it is time to put a route in on lead you put a super long cord on it, hang the battery at the last bolt and your drill is that much lighter. I also charge my batteries on my solar panel.
Edit: yeah, and what the folks said about considering the folks that are height-deprived - make sure you do your best so that everyone can clip. Not always possible but you have to try.
All that said, the most important thing noted in this thread is make sure you know WTF you are doing. There is nothing worse (ok open for debate) than a chop-job bolted route.
Now where did those bits run off to?!?!? I got work to do!
Doug
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overlord
May 28, 2004, 1:39 PM
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oh, one more thing. make sure you cant deck while clipping the second bolt. thats probably the most dangerous part of every climb. the same goes for bolts above ledges.
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p_grandbois
May 28, 2004, 1:42 PM
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Watch Cliffhanger, mimic everything that Sylvester does, including the free soloing.............Oh I mean just don't do it, if you lack the knowledge on how it is done, than just don't do it. Rule of thumb, get 5 years under your belt then bolt, if you feel the need.
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nature
May 28, 2004, 1:45 PM
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heck, for that matter, make sure you are not going to fall off before you clip the first bolt! I decked two weeks ago because I fell off before the first bolt (not my route). Had to bust a mid-5.11 move on an 11d. Rap routes should be safe is my _opinion_.
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kerouac
May 29, 2004, 6:41 AM
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A quick tip for TRing the route first. As you TR it, mark the rock with your chalk or chalk ball where you think a bolt should be. That way when your partner TRs, it they can clearly see where you intend the bolts to be.
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musicman
May 29, 2004, 7:02 AM
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i really need to vent about this, i was climbing a climb and realized that when i was cleanign the route that one of the bolts was bolted into a rock with a downward angled face on it, not the smartest idea
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karmaklimber
May 29, 2004, 7:27 AM
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Personally, if I were having to ask those questions publically, I probably wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to bolt...
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boltbreaker
Jun 4, 2004, 9:34 PM
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Dude...
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asandh
Jun 4, 2004, 9:51 PM
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:)
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mcfoley
Jun 4, 2004, 10:05 PM
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The answer is "YOU"- DON'T.
It's no that "If you have to ask you shouldn't be doing it, it's that you are LAZY!!!
Spend some time reading and learning...then ask questions.
mf
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one900johnnyk
Jun 4, 2004, 10:23 PM
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doesn't anyone know anything? sport climbs are climbed using removable protection you place as you go... :roll:
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