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tecais
Jun 3, 2004, 4:06 PM
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Registered: Jul 18, 2002
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I was at the seventh or eighth clip on Espresso at the Java Wall when I noticed the rope would be trapped right on a sharp edge by the lower biner if I fell. I quickly added a second draw for extension but clipped its top biner into the bottom biner of the first draw. This looked unsafe with possible gate opening due to natural twisting of the clipped biner pair. Of course a longer draw would have been ideal but to save weight I carried only standard-length pieces. It was too pumpy (for me, at least) to hang around to finesse the setup, but on reflection I now think it would have been better to remove one of the middle biners to make a three-biner, double dogbone (a 3x2 QD, if you will). I have seen these on overhangs for easier clipping at long reaches and wonder if this is standard and accepted practice?
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killclimbz
Jun 3, 2004, 4:11 PM
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Removing the middle biner is the best way to deal with that situation. Being said though not the greatest solution what you did is better than leaving your rope in a potential situation that could sever it. Just because the biners could twist open does not mean that they would in your situation. Are you taking a chance? Yes.
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coldclimb
Jun 3, 2004, 5:02 PM
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It's best not to chain biners, but like killclimbz says, it's better than nothing, or a potential rope cutting situation. Your idea of removing one of the middle biners would have worked better, though.
I personally just carry one or two trad draws with me, even on sport climbs. ;)
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jerrygarcia
Jun 3, 2004, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: I personally just carry one or two trad draws with me, even on sport climbs. ;)
Being mainly a trad climber, I always have at least 2 trad draws on me when climbing sport.
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jt512
Jun 3, 2004, 5:36 PM
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In reply to: I was at the seventh or eighth clip on Espresso at the Java Wall when I noticed the rope would be trapped right on a sharp edge by the lower biner if I fell.
Usually, such problems can be avoided by carrying more than one length of draw with you.
In reply to: I quickly added a second draw for extension but clipped its top biner into the bottom biner of the first draw. This looked unsafe with possible gate opening due to natural twisting of the clipped biner pair.
It is unsafe and I probably would have chosen to have my rope run over the edge, unless the rope might be cut (I can't think of any spots on Espresso where that could happen, though, maybe I've just never noticed).
In reply to: It was too pumpy (for me, at least) to hang around to finesse the setup, but on reflection I now think it would have been better to remove one of the middle biners to make a three-biner, double dogbone (a 3x2 QD, if you will). I have seen these on overhangs for easier clipping at long reaches and wonder if this is standard and accepted practice?
It is standard and accepted practice when you know ahead of time that an extended draw is needed, but like you say, it's hard to set up on the fly. I don't know why people remove the biner, though. You can put two biners through the same hole -- at least on my draws.
-Jay
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ic2d
Jun 3, 2004, 5:46 PM
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When connecting two draws biner to biner, wouldn't cross-loading be more of an issue than the possibility of unclipping? Especially when the biners are pressed against the wall (as would seem to be the case here). Curious...
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ic2d
Jun 3, 2004, 5:47 PM
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When connecting two draws biner to biner, wouldn't cross-loading be more of an issue than the possibility of unclipping? Especially when the biners are pressed against the wall (as would seem to be the case here). Curious...
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jonf
Jun 4, 2004, 12:27 AM
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I simply never use the pre-made, sewn quickdraws. I just use draws people typically use for trad routes, 2 biners with a sling, either doubled over a couple times of extended...that way i have any size i want, and they are easy to adjust mid-route. Using those sets of quickdraws seems kinda pointless to me.
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philbox
Moderator
Jun 4, 2004, 2:43 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Ted you oldie baddie traddie you ortta have known better than to leave the ground without a trad draw. you turning into a sport kiddie in yer old age mate. :lol:
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overlord
Jun 4, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
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thats the reason i carry slings. tie one to the appropriate length and fix tha bottom biner with a pieve of tape so it doest turn and voila, a custom draw just for the situation.
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boltbreaker
Jun 4, 2004, 9:24 PM
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Registered: Jun 1, 2004
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That would work, but the fastest method I found was to clip the bolt, then share the bottom loop in the first draw with the top biner of the second, without removing the bent gate biner from the first, if that makes any sense... or you could buy a couple of 12" or 24" slings. Just play it safe.
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yay_chris
Jun 10, 2004, 5:28 PM
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Registered: Feb 2, 2004
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Just take one of the biners out of the draw you wish to extend. Don't go biner-on-biner.
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