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asandh
Jun 16, 2004, 3:38 PM
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:wink:
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crimpandgo
Jun 16, 2004, 4:00 PM
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I see this discussion both ways.
Mostly I want to be safe and have fun. So, I will use a stick clip to get to that first bolt safely. Then there are some days when you just want to challenge yourself and find out what you are capable of. Those days I may attempt to start a route in the same fashion as the FA. Its not an ego thing (I don't think anyway).
Mostly, though, it ends up being stick clipped, because I really don't like pain, and I hate hiking out with broken bones.
I have considered getting a crash pad, but that's an aweful pain in the rump to hike back to remote climbs with :?
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mtnjohn
Jun 16, 2004, 4:06 PM
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Stick clipping = top roping
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asandh
Jun 16, 2004, 4:06 PM
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:D
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thun
Jun 16, 2004, 4:13 PM
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there are no rules to climbing. who cares what you do, anyways? just go climb, forget what anyone else says.
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thun
Jun 16, 2004, 4:19 PM
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In reply to: we usually make the 3rd clip a ground fall on the sport routes we put up.
you what? :shock: isn't the point of the bolt to protect the climber? why would you intentionally set them up for groundfall???
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asandh
Jun 16, 2004, 4:42 PM
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:)
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slablizard
Jun 16, 2004, 4:55 PM
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I guess it's not cheating, but for sure a little easier. Once ( 10 years ago) my philosophy was " if you can't do it you should not be there in the first place" and " if you're pumped at the first 4 moves to clip the first bolt maybe you're not strong enough for this route".
Deep down I do think the same way, but sometimes, like last time at this new area, the rock is very poor at the start of a route and a stick clip can make the difference bethween getting hurt or no. I hate getting hurt.
On the other hand what looks dangerous the first time, after a bit is routine, like the runout start of some routes at Pinnacles, or elsewhere.
So I guess it's personal. Of course not stick clipping is more "pure" sport climbing style, as is not climbing with pre-clipped draws. I don't have a stick clip, and if the first bolt looks to high or I don't feel that strong I just pick another route.
Sometime it's hard to understand why the route setter placed the first bolt so high in the first place, but again, nobody forces you to do that particular route.
I think in the end is more important if you can successfully lead the route, one clip more or less does not makes a big difference, while a broken leg does. Stick clip if you think you will get hurt, or do another route.
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 5:30 PM
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In reply to: If the route was originally done ground-up, then it's cheating.
Nonsense. Who cares how the route was put up? We're talking sport climbing here.
-Jay
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 5:34 PM
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In reply to: Of course not stick clipping is more "pure" sport climbing style, as is not climbing with pre-clipped draws.
Pure sport climbing style, if there is such a thing, would include stick clipping the first bolt and climbing with pre-placed draws.
In reply to: Sometime it's hard to understand why the route setter placed the first bolt so high in the first place...
The route setter, eh?
-Jay
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ninjaslut
Jun 16, 2004, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Of course not stick clipping is more "pure" sport climbing style, as is not climbing with pre-clipped draws. Pure sport climbing style, if there is such a thing, would include stick clipping the first bolt and climbing with pre-placed draws. ... -Jay
Why? Because that allows for the minimum amount of effort going into protection, rather than climbing? If so, wouldn't loose toproping be the most "pure" sport climbing style?
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: we usually make the 3rd clip a ground fall on the sport routes we put up. if the stick clipper wants to carry his/her magic wand that high then he/she has earned it ........
If you are establishing "sport" routes on rappel, and intentionally bolting them dangerously, then you are being unethical, unless you wouldn't mind having your routes retrobolted.
-Jay
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ninjaslut
Jun 16, 2004, 5:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Why? Because that allows for the minimum amount of effort going into protection, rather than climbing? If so, wouldn't loose toproping be the most "pure" sport climbing style? Something to do with leading. coylec
That's why I suggested "loose" toproping. Give a climber 3 (or more) ft. of slack, and he'll always have that sketched lead feeling. In fact, that feeling will never be interrupted on loose toprope, because he won't be comfortably under gear until he tops out.
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drrock
Jun 16, 2004, 5:56 PM
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edit
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 5:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Of course not stick clipping is more "pure" sport climbing style, as is not climbing with pre-clipped draws. Pure sport climbing style, if there is such a thing, would include stick clipping the first bolt and climbing with pre-placed draws. ... -Jay Why? Because that allows for the minimum amount of effort going into protection, rather than climbing?
Basically, yes.
In reply to: If so, wouldn't loose toproping be the most "pure" sport climbing style?
There are some people who think so, but I still think that routes should be led.
-Jay
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slablizard
Jun 16, 2004, 6:02 PM
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Hey JT what is your problem?
Of course Pure sport climbing style exists, it is on lead, possibly on sight, clipping all the bolts, no falls. At least that's what I know.
Route setter yes...the guy who drills the holes and place the bolts, why is it a wrong sentence? Wrong choice of words? What?
Developer sounds better?
In reply to: In reply to: Of course not stick clipping is more "pure" sport climbing style, as is not climbing with pre-clipped draws. Pure sport climbing style, if there is such a thing, would include stick clipping the first bolt and climbing with pre-placed draws. In reply to: Sometime it's hard to understand why the route setter placed the first bolt so high in the first place... The route setter, eh? -Jay |
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asandh
Jun 16, 2004, 6:11 PM
Post #43 of 93
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:)
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slablizard
Jun 16, 2004, 6:16 PM
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Agree with you JT.
In reply to: If you are establishing "sport" routes on rappel, and intentionally bolting them dangerously, then you are being unethical, unless you wouldn't mind having your routes retrobolted. -Jay |
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hungus
Jun 16, 2004, 6:36 PM
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I've heard of stick clipping being refered to as "real short top roping." If a route was put up without a stick clip it should be climbed without a stick clip. Otherwise, why not just let someone else lead the routes and stick to top roping everyting.
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 6:51 PM
Post #46 of 93
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In reply to: Hey JT what is your problem? Of course Pure sport climbing style exists, it is on lead, possibly on sight, clipping all the bolts, no falls. At least that's what I know.
"Clipping all the bolts." Are we back to talking about lead tests in the gym?
In reply to: Route setter yes...the guy who drills the holes and place the bolts, why is it a wrong sentence? Wrong choice of words? What?
Route setting is something you do with artificial holds in a gym. On real rock you can establish a route, put it up, FA it, etc.
-Jay
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slablizard
Jun 16, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #47 of 93
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In reply to: "Clipping all the bolts." Are we back to talking about lead tests in the gym?
No, I meant compared with red pointing with the bolts pre-clipped. But you knew it, right JT? you just like to play the funny guy. Am I right?
In reply to: Route setting is something you do with artificial holds in a gym. On real rock you can establish a route, put it up, FA it, etc. -Jay
Thanks, but... why do you say "real rock" ? There's no such a thing as fake rock...you should say "Outdoor" in this case.
ciao.
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thun
Jun 16, 2004, 7:07 PM
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In reply to: thun: someimes its just plain scary outside, but the gym is nice and cosey ....
sheesh, what a troll... what i was getting at is what jt512 also mentioned: that intentionally bolting a route for groundfall is unethical. but you've since backed off your original statement and it's a bit of a moot point now and why the hell am i wasting my time? :roll:
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jt512
Jun 16, 2004, 7:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: "Clipping all the bolts." Are we back to talking about lead tests in the gym? No, I meant compared with red pointing with the bolts pre-clipped. But you knew it, right JT?
No, actually I didn't realize that was what you meant. If I had I would have disagreed with you. There is nothing "pure" about putting up the draws yourself. On the contrary, almost all hard redpoints are done with the draws pre-placed, and some routes have permanent draws.
In reply to: Route setting is something you do with artificial holds in a gym. On real rock you can establish a route, put it up, FA it, etc. -Jay
Thanks, but... why do you say "real rock" ? There's no such a thing as fake rock...you should say "Outdoor" in this case.
Gym holds are artificial rock, but you're right, the "real" in "real rock" is superfluous.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Jun 16, 2004, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: Gym holds are artificial rock, but you're right, the "real" in "real rock" is superfluous. -Jay
Gym holds are not composed of artificial rock. They are plastic, and designed to mimic features in what you refer to as 'real rock.'
It's been a pleasure splitting hairs. 8^)
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