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rocdaug
Jun 25, 2004, 2:58 PM
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I'm 40. been climbing for about 3 years and just now starting to break 11s. comforatable leading sport 9s and most 10s --mostly just working through the mind game now. starting to second easy trad routes in the 6s and 7s. getting a lot of practise with my nut picker...
My question is how long will I be able to keep this up? ideally, barring injury, I can see myself doing this till I'm 60 then I guess I'd have to look into golf or something. I climb with a few guys and gals in their late 50s and they are rope guns!
I guess this is a question for the our senior members... How long before you plan to hang up the shoes and seek a less vertical passtime? (...if ever)
rd
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kimmyt
Jun 25, 2004, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: getting a lot of practise with my nut picker...
:shock: Shouldn't this be in Community??
K.
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dingus
Jun 25, 2004, 3:09 PM
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I learned to climb in this progression: crawl and climb, walk and climb, run and climb.
Hoepfully I'll wrap up my climbing career with the mirror digression, run and climb, walk and climb, crawl and climb.
Injury. You pushed it off to the side, but consider that if you persist you will almost certainly hurt yourself to the detriment of your climbing. Coming back from that... that is where the rubber meets the road.
I'm pushing 44 and have been roped climbing for 31 years. I have been significantly hurt several times, bad enough to force me to question my motives to continue. In fact I am currently having these sorts of discussions with myself, not yet ready to take on family, friends and strangers.
Do you keep coming back after injury? How many times can you muster the courage to set aside your fears once you understand the bad side of a fall?
I will tell you this... once you're hurt in a fall it is damned hard to just forget about it. But to properly climb however, one must be able to set aside the bad parts of this fear.
It's part and parcel to climbing and we all face it in degrees. I'm just saying, the older you get, the wiser you get, the more difficult the outcome to injury becomes to ignore, especially once you live through a recovery.
Fritz Wissner, Fred Beckey, John Gill, Allan Steck - I want to climb like these gentlemen. That would be my goal.
DMT
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dawnyb
Jun 25, 2004, 3:25 PM
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I knew this guy where I used to live who by now is pushing 60 and climbs 5.13. He is also pretty ripped. Guys used to call him grandpa. They'd say to him, "I want to look like you when I'm old". He'd say, "You don't look like me now."
Also, look at the French... there are guys getting up those Font boulders that are grandpas. Keep it up!
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asandh
Jun 25, 2004, 3:29 PM
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:)
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jv
Jun 25, 2004, 3:49 PM
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Allen Steck is 78. He climbs frequently, though I don't think he leads anymore. I'm just a tyke at 50, and going to Idyllwild this weekend.
JV
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cologman
Jun 25, 2004, 4:16 PM
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Your enthusiasm for the sport along with proper training will carry you to whatever point you choose. Don't let your current measuring stick determine how you will feel in a year or two or ten, you may find you'll surprise yourself. I'm 53 and climbing as hard and harder routes than I did a decade ago. Certainly bigger routes, my mind becomes more comfortable in the environment the older I get. Just a couple of nights ago I did a sport route I'd last tried 7-8 yrs ago and couldn't pull but manged to fire it now. And by the way I've been climbing for over 35 yrs. Injuries are another matter though :( . Up! Up! Always Up!
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dirtineye
Jun 25, 2004, 4:23 PM
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I've never climbed Longevity, what's it rated?
After a bad shoulder injury that does not want to get bette, I may not have the same ability as before, but I've actually climbed harder in some ways (but weaker in others).
I'm stil ltrying to regain the enjoyment level and the comfort level I had before the trouble hit.
Maybe the key to climbing longevity is to forget about how hard--stop and smell the rock along the way.
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rocksonthebrain
Jun 25, 2004, 4:30 PM
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In reply to: Have you seen that photo on the back of a recent Climbing Mag. -- The guy is 83 and LEADING Illusion Dweller in Josh (5.10b).
You know what this means. I've got 48 years at least to make it to 5.10b trad.
What's he got on his hands. It looks like there's some sort of padding (rubber) under the fingertips.
In climbing or at least some forms of climbing age seems to be a lesser factor than many other sports.
Bob
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winglady
Jun 25, 2004, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: Maybe the key to climbing longevity is to forget about how hard--stop and smell the rock along the way.
He's consistently leading rock at a higher level than he was 10 or 20 years ago. OK, so some may scoff that we are "only" climbing up to 5.9. But, we're having a great time, and we've found a bunch of really fun 5.5s through 5.8s as well that we love to do. He turns down invitations to go on month-long expeditions on difficult mountaineering peaks now, but loves to go on shorter trips to do a winter ascent of a Colorado peak, or tackle some wild, exposed ridge.
It's more about enthusiasm than age. Don't let a number define what you "should" be doing. If you need to scale back a little to compensate for a little less stamina or needing more recovery time than your climbing partners who are 20 or 30 years younger, that's cool. Just keep doing what you love at whatever level feels good to you!
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crazygirl
Jun 25, 2004, 4:56 PM
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well, lets put it this way
if you started climbing at 40, you have less of a chance of climbing 5.14, than you would if you started, let's say at 16.
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fitz
Jun 25, 2004, 4:57 PM
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Actually, you have a better chance of a long climbing career than many of us who are the same age (well, a little older) who have been climbing longer. Training, nutrition, etc. are not only more sensible, sports medicine has come a long way.
But, your question is actually too vague. If you enjoy getting chased off a 5.8 multi-pitch by an april snow storm as much as you enjoy cracking a new grade at a sport crag, death is about all that will stop you. High Exposure, Durance Route, Left Ski Track, Mount Conness... I figure that there is a lot of 5.6 fun for me over the next decades.
For me, the whole experience and adventure is what is appealing about trad climbing. On the other hand, while I loved playing baseball, being at a certain performance level was clearly part of my enjoyment. When age and injury started making it difficult to keep up at higher levels in adult leagues, I hung em' up. Sure, just having some skills and a chest size that is still larger than your waistline can make you a ringer on a slow-pitch, coed softball team at work, but that doesn't really offer what I used to get out of the sport.
On the other hand, I have friends who clearly just love the game at any level - and one plays a decent softball 1st base at 70. Like most things, it depends upon the individual.
At 40, and just climbing up the grades, your biggest worry is probably tendon injury. Properly condition, drink a lot of water, and let joint discomfort properly heal (instead of climbing through it with Advil) and you should have plenty of fun left in the tank no matter what you want out of the sport.
-jjf
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antigrav
Jun 25, 2004, 5:07 PM
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Nice thread.
In reply to: ... Injury. You pushed it off to the side, but consider that if you persist you will almost certainly hurt yourself to the detriment of your climbing. Coming back from that... that is where the rubber meets the road. I'm pushing 44 and have been roped climbing for 31 years. I have been significantly hurt several times, bad enough to force me to question my motives to continue. In fact I am currently having these sorts of discussions with myself, not yet ready to take on family, friends and strangers. Do you keep coming back after injury? How many times can you muster the courage to set aside your fears once you understand the bad side of a fall? I will tell you this... once you're hurt in a fall it is damned hard to just forget about it. But to properly climb however, one must be able to set aside the bad parts of this fear. It's part and parcel to climbing and we all face it in degrees. I'm just saying, the older you get, the wiser you get, the more difficult the outcome to injury becomes to ignore, especially once you live through a recovery. ... DMT
I'm more or less pondering these questions myself.
Just out of curiosity, do you have in mind injuries from "normal" climbing (leader falls without pro popping out, training too hard etc.) or more "unfortunate mishaps"? (Trad protection failing, causing long and high FF falls, freesoloing gone bad, ...)
I ask because I am wondering if I should restrict myself to certain "milder" forms of climbing. (I have come back from a bad alpine (none-climbing) "episode", but I really want to avoid getting into such a situation again.) A sorted (wrt. risk) list would be something like this: Low bouldering, toproped only, sports leading only, trad following, trad leading, freesoloing. I think maybe I should define where I want to be in that list.
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gds
Jun 25, 2004, 5:12 PM
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I'm 59 and only started climbing at 55.
I've had no serious climbing related injuries and it is probably because I've played sports forever and am very in tune with what works for me.
I stay mostly on moderates and am quite happy doing so. But in fact I am slowly improving how hard I climb.
Interestingly while always very fit and strong I found that when i started climbing I really lacked contact strength. but even that is improving.
Lots of studies show that us active seniors can remain so for a long time. 60 is way to young for golf-I'm thinking that comes at 92 or something like that.
Best line on the subject--"The only thing you can do at your age that I can't do at mine is --die young."
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asandh
Jun 25, 2004, 5:16 PM
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:)
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collegekid
Jun 25, 2004, 6:11 PM
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"A sorted (wrt. risk) list would be something like this: Low bouldering, toproped only, sports leading only, trad following, trad leading, freesoloing."
I don't think this is very accurate...tr should be lowest risk, with sport next, then bouldering, then trad.
I think if you stay within your comfort zone, you're very unlikely to get injured, so long as you know what you're doing and remain aware of your surroundings.
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dingus
Jun 25, 2004, 6:23 PM
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In reply to: Just out of curiosity, do you have in mind injuries from "normal" climbing (leader falls without pro popping out, training too hard etc.) or more "unfortunate mishaps"? (Trad protection failing, causing long and high FF falls, freesoloing gone bad, ...)
Both. I have had cause to get to know them well, over use injuries can be as long a plague as say a broken leg, perhaps even longer. Ever pulled a tendon in your hand? My last episode of this was 18 months to recover about 90% (unmeasured) of my former contact strength. I still worry from time to time on a cranking move that I will tear it again.
I've been hurt pursuing every single form of climbing I tackle, from alpine and ice climbing to simple bouldering a couple of feet off the ground.
Over use injuries don't do quite the mind fuck that a serious injury resulting from a fall can work. Example:
My good friend Angus authored a difficult boulder problem at Knights Ferry. We have each sent this problem dozens of times, literally. One day while alone Angus fell from his own problem and badly dislocated his elbow (he went into shock and had to be 'rescued' (as in escourted back to his car) by some tourists.
He has returned to his former evil form. He has yet to send that problem again though, even though he has tried. He can't force himself to do the cranking move at the crux, the same move he fell from.
I face a similar Rubicon somewhere in the future. I've done it before, gone back to send the route that damaged me. It gets harder each time, is my point.
In the end, on the right side of the Bell Curve, we have to be even better at risk analysis than when we were young and stupid. I don't bounce anymore!
Help! I've fallen and CAN'T GET DOWN!!!
DMT
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jgill
Jun 26, 2004, 3:59 AM
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You bet your husband can climb really well, Diane! He's my age but there's no way I could keep up with him on a longer slope.
This topic is a complicated one, but here are a few of my observations:
Look at Bob Kamps. He's now well into his 70s and still leads 5.10s and 5.11s, to the best of my knowledge. He's probably kept his edge by keeping his weight down and climbing frequently. When I look at photos of the two of us in the Black Hills in the 1960s or 1970s, he's quite muscular, but trim even then. Now he's thinner, but sticks to the rock as well as a much youger climber. Bob is also shorter than me, and I think climbers smaller than 6' have an edge starting perhaps in their mid 60s, all the way through their 80s.
A lot depends upon genetics, and how well a person fends off the common ailments plaguing the aging process. Here, continuous exercise will give most climbers a distinct advantage over more sedentary types. The other side of that coin, however, is the accumulation of injuries. Those buggers will come back to haunt you as you grow old. So training is good, but overtraining will trip you up in your Golden Years.
Then, there is the question of how long an older climber has been at it. Kamps is an exception, here, but generally the number of years you've stressed yourself on the rock is just as important as your age. There's one gentleman, over 80, who climbs very well indeed, but he's been at it only 30 years. Lou Lutz, who's photo is on my website, is seen "bouldering" at the age of 89 . . . but he started climbing when he was 60. I believe Lester Germer, the great physicist, started later in life. Is this correct, Curt?
Perhaps rgold could tell us something of Fritz Wiessner. He climbed many, many years, but probably didn't stress his upper torso muscles, tendons, and ligaments like youngsters today do. I've heard that he continued into his 80s, even with arthritic knees. Is this true, Rich?
There seems to be a critical point at about the age of 70, where some are forced to back way off. One of my old friends from the 1950s tells me that at about 70 things sort of "fell apart". However, judging from his fit appearance, now, he could have been exagerating. I know I've slowed down after my 67th birthday, mostly due to old shoulder injuries.
It's pretty much a crap shoot. If you have some good genetics and keep active and relatively intact you'll have fun in old age. This, of course, is assuming you adjust your perceptions of the sport a bit. Don't expect to necessarily have the same severe objectives you had as a youngster, or the same drive and energy - although occasionally you'll see tremendous activity and desire in some old timers. Come into balance with your aging anatomy.
As for bouldering in old age, well, I pretty much quit the tough stuff at the age of fifty, when I had a bad arm injury, but there's no reason to stop striving for at least another ten years. Look at Bob Williams, 57, of Denver - he still does V8, and persists in his splendid dynamic style. He knows better than to challege the teenagers, though! Bob is shorter than 6' and very trim - although he complains about a miniscule pot-belly!
I would recommend a boulderer stop jumping off of things as he or she pushes through their 60s. That is, unless technology produces an air bag in lieu of the current crashpads! But, I'm probably wrong there, too. There will be some lucky boulderers who can literally leap into their 70s! 8^)
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curt
Jun 26, 2004, 4:18 AM
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In reply to: Then, there is the question of how long an older climber has been at it. Kamps is an exception, here, but generally the number of years you've stressed yourself on the rock is just as important as your age. There's one gentleman, over 80, who climbs very well indeed, but he's been at it only 30 years. Lou Lutz, who's photo is on my website, is seen "bouldering" at the age of 89 . . . but he started climbing when he was 60. I believe Lester Germer, the great physicist, started later in life. Is this correct, Curt?
Yes. Lester Germer injured his back in WWI (in which he was an ace fighter pilot) after crashing his airplane. While working at Bell Laboratories, some time after the famous Davisson-Germer experiment which resulted in the Nobel Prize for physics, his doctors told him that some sort of physical activity would be good for his back problems. I believe that Germer was in his mid 50s at the time. On this advice, Germer took up rock climbing and ended up being a quite competent Gunks climber and Alpinist.
I know this because Lester Germer introduced John Arthur to rock climbing when they were at Bell Labs together. John Arthur went on to invent molecular beam epitaxy during his years at Bell Labs, and I later ended up working for him in that area. John then subsequently introduced me to rock climbing--so, I guess I am really a climbing grandstudent of Germer's in a way.
Curt
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brutusofwyde
Jun 26, 2004, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: Allen Steck is 78. He climbs frequently, though I don't think he leads anymore.
He was cranking 10s in the gym this Thursday in between belaying his grandson.
Brutus
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