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blueindian
Jul 9, 2004, 12:00 AM
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so i've been thinking about bolts all day and how it can sometimes be tough to judge them, decide if they are safe to rap from, TR from etc...
what if folks put some sort of tag on them. like dog tags sort of...stainless steel that would last. it could have the type of bolt, length, date of placement, name of bolter, etc
it could be really small and like mat black or something so it wouldn't have to bee seen really except up close.
i'm sure there are some reasons why folks wouldn't like this, so what are they?
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yosemite
Jul 9, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Why not contact OSHA? Let them do it.
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dutyje
Jul 9, 2004, 12:22 AM
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I heard that most bolters etch that info on the back of the hanger before they go out to put up a route. It's right under the warranty and contact information for the party to be held responsible in the event of a mishap.
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blueindian
Jul 9, 2004, 12:40 AM
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oh goody, smart ass answers already!
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tchamber
Jul 9, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Two words-- Natural Selection
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tchamber
Jul 9, 2004, 12:56 AM
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sorry for the smart ass response, I felt I had to contribute to the cause. Really, if you could actually get people to do it, and standardize it... then it's an intriguing... Then again, people may go strictly by the tag and trust a crappy bolt that isn't so bomber, just because it's a beefy bolt doesn't make it good... I think all in all it's best to trust human judgement and back up any bolts you don't want to die on. A little dramatic... but oh well...
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mtnjohn
Jul 9, 2004, 1:00 AM
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What?!
Tags!?
This is a troll right?
People don't really think is a good idea?
Would they be registerd somewhere, liscensed and maintained by NPS
Who the hell has time / endurance to READ a bolt while clipping?
This is a troll right?
Gotta be a troll
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coylec
Jul 9, 2004, 1:26 AM
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Either a really bad troll or a really interesting idea.
First, I believe that ASCA marks all their hangers. I've seen 'em and they are a relief after being on mank. Individuals don't mark their bolts for several reasons.
(1) no reason to, really.
(2) increased liability ... somebody gets hurt on a bad bolt and your name's on it ... you gonna get sued.
(3) sometime people place bolts where they shouldn't be ... and these individauls don't want to be known.
just because someone's name is on it isn't going to mean its better or worse than another bolt.
coylec
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tigerbythetail
Jul 9, 2004, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: so i've been thinking about bolts all day and how it can sometimes be tough to judge them, decide if they are safe to rap from, TR from etc...
All day you say? Maybe some more experience is in order to help speed up your decision making time?
In reply to: what if folks put some sort of tag on them. like dog tags sort of...stainless steel that would last. it could have the type of bolt, length, date of placement, name of bolter, etc
Some of this info can be found in a guidebook, while more of it will be obvious with experience (see above).
Some people have tried this over the years, but it has met with little success and mostly negative feedback. One example comes to mind - The Green Ripper route at Mt. Lemmon has a tag on one of the bolts with the first ascentionist's initials (C.R.) and the date.
What next? A bolt tag that reads "crux" , "Don't Fall" , "Made you look" or "Your name here"? It's a bolt, not a bulletin board. Try getting in touch with some locals and/or the FA party and you may have all the answers you need.
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mtnjohn
Jul 9, 2004, 1:43 AM
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Maybe first ascensionist could raise money by selling ad space on bolts.
Maybe "Opening move brought to you by Coors"
or "This crux sequence courtesy of Buick"
Let's try to reduce impact not add tags
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slobmonster
Jul 9, 2004, 1:47 AM
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The Banditos had a tradition of doing something akin to this. Bolts in the desert, homemade hangers of stock aluminum, with quotes stamped on. Some examples: "oh shit," "thank god," "bad bolt," "Bandito," etcetera.
The one (giant, deep, cemented) ring bolt anchor atop the Green Spur in Eldo has not only the bolter's identity (Colorado Mountain Club), but also instructions regarding length of rappel and amount of rope needed, etc.
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blueindian
Jul 9, 2004, 1:47 AM
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man, WTF is with all the smart ass answers like:
In reply to: All day you say? Maybe some more experience is in order to help speed up your decision making time?
and the dayum troll comments? there seems to be a mild obsession around here for calling new folks trolls.
anyway...not like i've been sitting around like The Thinker all day pondering bolts. I've just been thinking on and off today about anchors in general after I read a Royal Robbins book on climbing circa 1970s that i found at a book store today. (One of the sections is about choosig between a braided rope and a kernmantle rope and how you should never climb on a natural fiber rope..keep that in mind ladies and gentlemen :P)
the book was going on about pitons and piton placement, when to take them out, when to leave them, whether or not to trust the ones you came across, etc. that just got me thinking about bolts...
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yosemite
Jul 9, 2004, 2:00 AM
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Send some bucks to ASCA.
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dutyje
Jul 9, 2004, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: man, WTF is with all the smart ass answers like: In reply to: All day you say? Maybe some more experience is in order to help speed up your decision making time? and the dayum troll comments? there seems to be a mild obsession around here for calling new folks trolls. anyway...not like i've been sitting around like The Thinker all day pondering bolts. I've just been thinking on and off today about anchors in general after I read a Royal Robbins book on climbing circa 1970s that i found at a book store today. (One of the sections is about choosig between a braided rope and a kernmantle rope and how you should never climb on a natural fiber rope..keep that in mind ladies and gentlemen :P) the book was going on about pitons and piton placement, when to take them out, when to leave them, whether or not to trust the ones you came across, etc. that just got me thinking about bolts...
Blue -
I didn't mean to offend you by my smart-assed comment. It's just that whenever I see a great opportunity like that, I have a hard time resisting the temptation. My co-workers don't really appreciate that quality in me, either. Rest assured, I was only trying to entertain.
BLUE YOU'RE MY BOY!!
OK, now.. back to the topic at hand. I like the tag idea, coupled with the concept of standardization and advertising. I think that the bolt-choppers should get sponsorships, too. Think of the possibilities!
"The Anheuser-Busch sponsored opening move was chopped courtesy of Miller Brewing Company."
Or "The bolts on this route were chopped in under 1 hour with the use of a Craftsman Cordless Rotary Tool. Pick one up at your local Sears today!"
Or "The hardware to replace these removed bolts can be found at Lowe's"
Even the gear companies and outfitters could get into the act:
"This bolt has been removed. Rather than use a quickdraw to protect this crux, we recommend a Red Alien, available at www.gearexpress.com for $53 and free shipping!"
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cgailey
Jul 9, 2004, 3:13 AM
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No, some traditionalist would chop them off because they were mad about getting their favorite micro stopper stuck. :P
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tigerbythetail
Jul 9, 2004, 3:16 AM
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dutyje
Jul 9, 2004, 3:22 AM
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Wait a sec, everybody. In blue's defense I don't think it was a troll. It's just an idealistic question that presents ample opportunity for sarcastic response. And it wasn't even a bad idea -- it just won't ever happen. If you feel it's a troll, stay out of the conversation and let all us suckers (me) participate.
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tigerbythetail
Jul 9, 2004, 3:39 AM
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Well done coldclimb - that's pure Genius.
Operators are standing by...Visa/Mastercard are accepted from touchtone phones and secure Internet connections.
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blueindian
Jul 9, 2004, 10:28 AM
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In reply to: Your words not mine. Don't try and explain it away. Not really in favor of Rodan anyway. I stand by my previous statement. Had you more experience climbing and not trolling you wouldn't need to ask these questions.
way to nitpick my words there pal. your talking shit based on the way i happend to phrase something in my first post...as if any logical person would interpret that to mean, "literally all day. this guy has thought about nothing but bolts! hell, he even forgot to eat, shower, or taken a dump today because he was so fixated on bolts!"
that's a lot more trollish than my posting a thought i had framed by the question, "Why wouldn't folks like this?". If you want to post up why you don't like it fine, go ahead. But no need to talk shite to me really is there?
In reply to: Reading Comprehension 101. Already answered these questions. Let me answer your questions a second time. Check a local guidebook and there's your answer. No luck there? Ask around and get in touch with knowledgeable locals or even the FA party if available. All of your answers will most likely be answered.
reading comprehension 201. Already said this but let me say it again. I was asking what you wouldn't like about some sort of tagging system, not for obvious advice about how to find out about a bolt, not for smartass answers, and not so you could talk shite.
perhaps i should sign you up for reading comprehension 301. in your 2 posts so far you yet to answer the question i posed...why wouldn't you like it? If this were a class you'd be pulling a F.
In reply to: As for bolt type and some of the other details, that will come with, again, more experience. Consider getting a more up-to-date book than Basic or Advanced Rockcraft. Careful there's a light ahead...I'd call that a bargain...
good call knowing which book it was, if you actually knew rather than googling some information just so you could keep running your mouth and making yourself feel good. i'm going to assume the later however becasue if you were familiar with the book you would know that anyone who purchased it today would be buying it for some reason other than a reference.
i got it because i happened upon it in a used book store and i like old climbing/backpacking/canoing books.
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kindredhawk
Jul 9, 2004, 11:19 AM
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zzzzzzzz... i wonder... this seems to be going the way of the why so nosey thread. if thats the case they should reacruit all the smart azzes here.
come one come all leave the bull shizzle comments to threads that really deserve it like this one. to get the full effect if you have time to read the whole epic start from page one.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=798149#798149
About the dogg tag thing. He never said that names would be put on the bolt "tags/hangers" just info on the bolt itself like depth/dia.(although you could observe that)/maybe they're expanding or has epoxy added if it isn't showing. not hi i am joe stephens number 555-JOES give me a call when you deck cause my lame bolt popped from your dumb azz using it thinking it was a 3/8" but really was a 1/4". if it was simply placed on one bolt at the base of the climb would that be so hard? but seeing as how i don't bolt routes.... 1-2-3 NOT IT!
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tradklime
Jul 9, 2004, 1:28 PM
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What is somewhat funny about all the flaming is that it really isn't a terrible question. I have seen small metal tags sticking out from under the first bolt hanger with a route grade, and this really didn't increase the visual impact of anything. I've also seen dates scratched into powder coated hangers, presumably the date of install, which really isn't a terrible idea.
As far as the level detail in the original post, type, size, installer, it's not likely to happen. I'd encourage everyone who clips bolts to spend some time educating themselves on recognizing/ evaluating bolts. For example, I've know experienced climbers who saw a hex head and assumed it to be a rawl 5 piece, when in fact it was a torque bolt- entirely different animal.
Just because some information is on a tag, or whatever, doesn't mean you can trust it. It's your life, take it upon yourself to be as informed as possible. And don't stop asking questions because of a few jerks.
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flashsixteen
Jul 9, 2004, 1:28 PM
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In reply to: zzzzzzzz... i wonder... this seems to be going the way of the why so nosey thread. if thats the case they should reacruit all the smart azzes here. come one come all leave the bull shizzle comments to threads that really deserve it like this one. to get the full effect if you have time to read the whole epic start from page one.
We have at least 7 more pages to go.
Someone said something about a dog tag ... the date would be all you need, but in the end, it isn't necessary. I could put in a bolt tomorrow, slap a date on it, but the tag doesn't you that I have no idea what I am doing. Then someone would suggest we would all have to get rated by some association on our ability 1-10 so we could stamp our number on it. But then again we could be posers and say we are a 10 so then the people that rated us would have to issue us tags. No matter what way you go with it either isn't enough or ridiculous to place bolts... the last thing climbing need is some regulatory body controlling something like bolts.
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clarki
Jul 9, 2004, 1:45 PM
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[and the dayum troll comments? there seems to be a mild obsession around here for calling new folks trolls.]
Blue, you may, or may not be a troll, that is your busuness :D What they are getting at is a "troll" as in fishing.....here, check this link out:
http://www.fact-index.com/i/in/internet_troll.html
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tigerbythetail
Jul 9, 2004, 4:30 PM
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