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stevep
Jul 13, 2004, 6:40 PM
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I think the article was fairly accurate. For better or worse, there is a lot of resentment at the attention she's received relative to her accomplishments in the climbing world.
First of all, don't compare her to Lynn Hill. Lynn pushed boundaries in quite a few different ways, something that Tori has not done.
Tori is a strong climber, but there are certainly at least 3-4 other teen girls that I can think of that are close to her in ability. Not to mention Lisa Rands. Tori has received much more attention than Lisa or these girls not because of her skills at climbing, but because of her self-promotion and marketabliliy. This certainly rubs some people the wrong way.
Finally, I know that there has been questions at a number of comps Tori has been in about her receiving beta from family members in the audience. This has not helped her reputation.
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nagatana
Jul 13, 2004, 6:43 PM
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In reply to: Tori has received much more attention than Lisa or these girls not because of her skills at climbing, but because of her self-promotion and marketabliliy. This certainly rubs some people the wrong way.
The earlier Anna Kournikova parallel is accurate.
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survivalexpert
Jul 13, 2004, 7:01 PM
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Well it may be poor journalism, but you have to admit; is there anyone who didn't read the ENTIRE article?
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nnowak
Jul 13, 2004, 7:08 PM
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Of course the real problem is that it refers to her as a "rock" climber. This is why many climbers get upset when the medias only view of them is through indoor comps.
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dorkmaster
Jul 13, 2004, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: 20 minutes of my life has been wasted |
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crimpandgo
Jul 13, 2004, 7:31 PM
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Flipandfall wrote:
No hard feelings, but that's an unfair statement. We don't have a problem when REI commercializes itself and its climbing gear. We don't chew climbers out for having PowerBar stickers or those sponsored by Petzl. If that's not commercializing the sport I don't know what is. Commercializing is what pays for a lot of our top climbers to spend time at the crags. How did Lynn Hill afford all those amazing trips?
crimps response:
No hard feelings taken. I dont think I stated my feelings clearly enough. Its not the commercialism that bothered me. I understand all the top athlete survive based on money from sponsership. Its the feeling I get that she is more interested in the notoriety and not as much in the climbing itself. I find myself driven to read about/follow climbers that, in my opinion show a true passion for the sport they participate in. This is just a pesonal feeling. Not one that has to be accepted by others.
Nagatana wrote:
Did she wave like Nixon? I fail to see the negativity in waving at a crowd.
crimps response:
refer to above discussion. Its not the wave. its the play for attention that I feel outways the passion for the sport. Again, just my opinion. I have not spoken to her personally so I may have her all wrong. I have however spoken to other folks like Chris Sharma and I get totally different sense of what the sports means to them. So, if I pick up a magazine, I will tend to read articles (or go to a comp) about them first.
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unabonger
Jul 13, 2004, 7:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The only thing the sport of climbing needs is fewer climbers. i think that is the one part of the article that i agree with most..
So quit climbing. Voila, one fewer.
UB
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bumblie
Jul 13, 2004, 7:42 PM
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It appears that much of the resentment in the climbing community stems from her (seemingly) shameless self-promotion.
Several years ago, Katie Brown was all the rage. The only negativity I ever heard about her had to do with health issues, i.e. potential anorexia, and the rumor that she brought her cat to the crag. :lol:
Katie Brown had a very positive image, largely due to how she genuinely presented herself.
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unabonger
Jul 13, 2004, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: This article was a big waste of my time. 20 minutes of my life has been wasted. I need to put a twist on it so I don't feel so robbed.
20 minutes? Jesus, try it again only without reading out loud or something.
SpeedreadBonger
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fredrogers
Jul 13, 2004, 7:46 PM
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Was that the full length article? It read more like page one of a 5 page article. If it was the full length then it was truly a poor piece of shiite journalism.
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crater
Jul 13, 2004, 7:59 PM
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ha ha ha, you kids are freak'n funny. I guess I am not edumacated as you.
Is that the best you have in ya?
The first 20 minute joke was funny.
Unabonger: You seem to be a bit of a parrot.
This refers to my 20 miinute reading. Maybe I'll take the time and try to give a $hit when I give time tables. Or do you need the material? This last part does not refer to Una since you'll just repeat that next bit of whit that you here. By the way, would you like a cracker?
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mrmons
Jul 13, 2004, 8:06 PM
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climb_plastic:
Yes, I see that now. :? People are getting getting bent over this one. I'm kinda shocked to see so many responses. Hmmm...
Mr.Mons :twisted:
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iclimbtoo
Jul 13, 2004, 8:18 PM
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A reply to the newspaper:
In reply to: On the Tori Allen Article- First of all, only climbers within the climbing community should be writing articles about the problems of THEIR sport and the people it involves. Obviously, your incompetence shines through in projecting an article bashing climbers and "stereotypical popular kids" and not what it was intended for, a vote for Tori Allen. And even if that poor example of beginner journalism were to get its point across clearly, the point is moot. Tori Allen has no respect in the climbing community because she is the epitomy of introducing climbing into a capitalist and money hungry society. True climbers do what they do because of a love for the sport, the freeing exilaration of letting go for a while. Of scaring your hand in some crack, hundreds of feet above the ground, while searching through your rack for that perfect piece of gear to help ease the andrenaline rush pumping through your blood...at least for the next 15 feet or so. If climbing were about publicity, then the types of people who climb wouldn't be doing it...we would leave that job for Paris Hilton or Ashon Cusher. It's one thing to be recognized for your climbing accomplishments (Peter Croft, Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell, Steph Davis, Dean Potter, Dan Osman, Chris Sharma, John Long, Jim Wickwire, Pete Athens, Reinhold Messner...just to name a few), but it's another thing to try to monopolize and subjugate the sport of climbing to meet one's own personal desires. And setting up a scarecrow argument in defense of the climbing community and then tearing it down was one of the worst peices of journalism I have seen in a long time. Do the climbing community a favor next time you want to bash us...your homework. Learn something about what you're writing about. Don't just take the opinions of a girl and try to shove it down our throats. After we vomit it back out we'll hit you over the head with a #5 Cam and try to knock some sense into you (or at least get you to change your profession).
Right on. Sure she may be a cool kid...but it's how she publicizes herself through our sport that makes me sick...mostly her parents fault.
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crimpandgo
Jul 13, 2004, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Are you kidding? Did you read through this thread? Lots of haters on a 15 year old kid whom no one here ever met! I'll bet you she's a really cool kid.
crimps response:
Who said "Hate"? Just for the record, I don't hate her. I admire her in certain ways. I certainly would never buy her climbing doll for my kids though :cry:
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climb_plastic
Jul 13, 2004, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: Again, just my opinion. I have not spoken to her personally so I may have her all wrong.
"haters" is slang for people who say negative things or form negative opinions about someone they haven't met...usually due to jealousy or differences in belief.
It's funny how something as simple as a wave to people yelling and cheering from a 15 year old girl can be looked as negative.
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wodaddy
Jul 13, 2004, 8:50 PM
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i've never really considered her a climber.....
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crimpandgo
Jul 13, 2004, 8:58 PM
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climb_pastic wrote:
"haters" is slang for people who say negative things or form negative opinions about someone they haven't met...usually due to jealousy or differences in belief.
It's funny how something as simple as a wave to people yelling and cheering from a 15 year old girl can be looked as negative.
crimps response:
climb, your sympathy falls on deaf ears. if you think you have to meet someone to form an opinion then you are nieve at the very least. She chooses to "advertise herself, and in my opinion she chooses to be critiqued as well. The media is not seeking her out, she is seeking the media out for the attention. So, I feel no shame in stating my opinion. I am not jealous, but I do have differences in beliefs. I believe I want to read about/follow climbers that give ME the impression they are involved in something because they have a true passion for it and not just for the attention. I dont hate Tori, I dont even know her personally. How could I hate her. But the opinions I form from her media push causes me to lose interest in following her career. I am not sure how you equate any of this information to HATE. The topics are not even related.
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climb_plastic
Jul 13, 2004, 9:26 PM
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In reply to: She chooses to "advertise herself, and in my opinion she chooses to be critiqued as well. The media is not seeking her out, she is seeking the media out for the attention. So, I feel no shame in stating my opinion. I am not jealous, but I do have differences in beliefs. I believe I want to read about/follow climbers that give ME the impression they are involved in something because they have a true passion for it and not just for the attention. I dont hate Tori, I dont even know her personally. How could I hate her. But the opinions I form from her media push causes me to lose interest in following her career. I am not sure how you equate any of this information to HATE. The topics are not even related.
I already gave you what I meant by hater. read it...it doesn't say you HATE her. The definition of hater says that you don't know her so how the heck do you know she doesn't have a passion for climbing. She's been doing it ever since she was a kid (oh she still is). I don't think she climbed literally all day long just for attention when most of the time she was all alone climbing. Even if she got no attention she'd still be climbing a hell of a lot more than us....and when she talks about taking a break from climbing that still means she'll be climbing a hell of a lot more than any of us. Does that sound like enough passion or do you want more?
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redpointron
Jul 13, 2004, 9:26 PM
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i cannot believe i am jumping into this nonsense. :roll:
In reply to: I "haters" is slang for people who say negative things or form negative opinions about someone they haven't met...usually due to jealousy or differences in belief.
i have met tori (and her parents) a couple of different times. they've come to comps down in bloomington and i've participated in a comp at the gym they own in indianapolis. the first time was about 5 years ago and tori played with my daughter who was about 18 months at the time. very pleasant young girl.
i think the "hating", of which you speak, stems from the perceived commercialization of our sport over these past few years and not any jealousy over her climbing ability (seriously, 15 year olds that climb 5.hard are a dime a dozen nowadays).
can i fault them? no, it has absolutely no effect upon my life. but is it the way i would do things? once again, no...but fortunately we live in a society where you can take whatever talent you have and sell it to someone. :roll:
r.r.
p.s. don't we all look back at ourselves at 15 years old and feel a bit embarassed?
p.s.s. please lock this thread. it will surely resurface in a couple months....
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halcyon
Jul 13, 2004, 9:31 PM
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I want a John Gill action figure. Maybe a Tommy Caldwell or Sharma. I could bring them to the crags with me and play with them as I belay. OR I could spend the 6 bucks on a biner.... decisions decisions...
If any climber should be glorified as an action figure, my vote is Dan Osman. He could come with a rope jumping setup....
As for Tori, Leave her alone. Maybe she climbs for different reasons, but don't boulderers climb for different reasons than big wallers? traders? Peak baggers?
EDIT: I got paranoid about being flamed... NO, I would not play with action figures while belaying. I am a very attentive belayer. That was in fact sarcasm, but people on this site have a hard time with that.
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the_pirate
Jul 13, 2004, 9:34 PM
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In reply to: If climbing were about publicity, then the types of people who climb wouldn't be doing it...we would leave that job for Paris Hilton or Ashon Cusher.
Or Warren Harding
Ahh and my all-time favorite internet-climber's threat:
In reply to: After we vomit it back out we'll hit you over the head with a #5 Cam and try to knock some sense into you. |
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crimpandgo
Jul 13, 2004, 9:44 PM
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climb plastic:
Sorry, but I dont agree with your definition of a hater. A person with a negative opinion does not have to hate anyone or anything. And I did not say she had no passion for climbing. I said "I perceived her" to have different reasons for climbing than I do. therefore I have no interest in her self promotion. The original post was about "poor Tori" I am not implying any feelings for or about her. As I said, I do not know her personally. I only know what I read. I am simply saying. I have no sympathy for Tori. She self promotes herself, she has to accept the bad press that can come with it.
Since this is turning into a nitpicking on words debate and nothing more, I will let this go to the rest of you.. Peace
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climb_plastic
Jul 13, 2004, 9:44 PM
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[quote="redpointron"]
i think the "hating", of which you speak, stems from the perceived commercialization of our sport over these past few years and not any jealousy over her climbing ability (seriously, 15 year olds that climb 5.hard are a dime a dozen nowadays).
In reply to: It could also be jealousy of someone getting a lot of attention. ie. Sharma..or even worse Kournikova with no ability but takes advantage of the media. Would anyone blame Kournikova for taking advantage of the media..hell no! That would be dumb if she doesn't So now our beloved sport is becoming commercialized (Tori didn't commercialize it) and the media seeks Tori (that's right...the media seeks out Tori...not the other way around) and she takes advantage of it. She still loves the sport. Most people would do the same thing too. Everyone please keep your moral spraying in check.
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indigo_nite
Jul 13, 2004, 9:51 PM
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the first paragraph was weak b/c it made alot of statements that you can't prove as facts. alot of subjective judgements (hostile climbers... how can this be w/ all the threads about smoking and climbing???). but maybe this publication runs more like a magazine than a newspaper. I don't know the pub. got the feeling the writer wanted to be edgy but came across as an outsider writing about the surface of what she'd seen or heard of (who knows).
the last part about people wanting to drag Tori down. well, maybe I'm an old-fashioned cynic but that's just human nature. but it seems a bit out of place in a news article.
some of the article, about Allen's genuineness and her modesty was new to me b/c I know nothing about Allen except she's a climbing name. so I learned something. so all was not lost.
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climb_plastic
Jul 13, 2004, 9:52 PM
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In reply to: therefore I have no interest in her self promotion. The original post was about "poor Tori" I am not implying any feelings for or about her. As I said, I do not know her personally. I only know what I read. I am simply saying. I have no sympathy for Tori. She self promotes herself, she has to accept the bad press that can come with it.
How do you self-promote yourself? I'd like to know so I can try it. I think I can try to self promote myself all I want to and no one would care. People are interested in her so the media shows her and the companies want to sponsor her...I would too if I was the media and climbing companies. Did she self-promote this thread about her....No! but look how long it is and how much attention it got...even from you and you don't like her. That's exactly why the media goes for her.
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