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alpnclmbr1
Jul 15, 2004, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: your going to have to offer a better explaination than that becouse i think your flat wrong. what truly makes you believe that, as shown in that photo, the gri gri would be anything less than absolutly reliable? what makes you think it wouldn't lock up?
You might try the owners manual that came with your grigri. That is usually where you can find the answers to questions like this.
The fact that you do not know what it says in the owners manual, does not say much for your "familiarity with the device."
And belaying with a plate device off your harness is a better way for this situation.
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jt512
Jul 16, 2004, 2:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: 4. this forum has a prejiduce against grigris, when used correctly they are an excellent and reliable tool. I agree. However, you are using it incorrectly. -Jay your going to have to offer a better explaination than that becouse i think your flat wrong. what truly makes you believe that, as shown in that photo, the gri gri would be anything less than absolutly reliable? what makes you think it wouldn't lock up?
It is scary that you have to ask. The photo shows the grigri on the ground, upsidedown, with the cam pressing against the rock. If the grigri were loaded in a fall in this position, the cam would be forced down on the rock, which would hold it open.
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jul 16, 2004, 2:23 AM
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So, euroford, you think you can hold that gri-gri off the ground when your pal falls?
The only thing that seems to be securing the gri-gri is the anchor, which is right on the rock.
I would not count on that. It's Possible that you might hold the gri-gri off the rock, but it's also Possible (moreso in my mind) taht you woudl at least get yoru fingers pinched between rope and rock and maybe even let go when this happens.
These guys are being awfully gentle with you...
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euroford
Jul 16, 2004, 6:48 PM
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yawn.....
beware the internet rock jock grigri patrol......
in a nutshell, that belay was solid, and given the belay tools on my harness was by far the best technique available for the given situation.
though fortunatly i'll not be using a grigri in the future, at least the b52 will eleminate the discusion of percieved belay errors reguardless of them acutally existing or not.
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jt512
Jul 16, 2004, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: yawn..... beware the internet rock jock grigri patrol......
Beware of know-it-all gumbies.
Some of us who are trying to correct you have caught over 1000 falls with a grigri without incident. Maybe you should shut up and listen.
In reply to: in a nutshell, that belay was solid, and given the belay tools on my harness was by far the best technique available for the given situation.
Yeah, upsidedown, with the rock preventing the cam from engaging. Yep, that's the ideal.
-Jay
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euroford
Jul 17, 2004, 12:02 AM
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i've listened, but now your being condiscending. the fact of the matter, is that you wern't there, i was, and the only thing i think your trying to get by posting in this way is some kind of validation along the lines of me saying "oh your right oh guru of internet grigri advise". well i'm not going to, though i'll admit an autoblocking device would have been and will in the future be a better choice. but i must ask, what would YOU have done? if you say belay of your harness with an atc/tube -your- flat wrong, you would definity not have good control at this stance using that technique. it leaves a good chance of you getting yanked off the ledge and losing control of the belay than your percieved risk of grigri failure.
so having cought so many falls with a grigri, are you some kind of sport or gym climber?? i've definitly never cought a leader fall with a grigri, cuz i don't use it that way. have i cought some tr and second falls? yeah. but definitly not many, cuz i don't sport climb, i don't gym climb regularly, i havn't topropped in ages and i don't hang out with followers who are gunna whip like crazy on toprope.
a gumby i may be, a know it all i'm definitly not and i don't think i'm giving that impresion. i do know enough to make a solid belay however, and i'm not here sitting at my computer attempting to act supperior. i'm definitly more than open to constructive criticsims.
oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented? you can tell which way i'm holding it while brining in slack, but not which was the anchor is actually setup.
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coclimber26
Jul 17, 2004, 12:32 AM
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The placements look fine but belaying with the cam side down on the gri-gri is a fatal mistake for beginners...always belay/rappel with the handel facing your body.
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euroford
Jul 17, 2004, 12:41 AM
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if your right handed, the handle faces away from your body.
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coclimber26
Jul 17, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Petzl recommends never using the grigri with the handel away from your body no matter what handed you are, the lever can get trapped in the open position against the rock.
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nut_tool
Jul 17, 2004, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: if your right handed, the handle faces away from your body.
If you're competent enough to brake with either hand, your partner lives.... (note proper use of you're and your)
:lol: :lol: :lol: ...gumbie.... :lol:
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jt512
Jul 17, 2004, 3:28 AM
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In reply to: i'll admit an autoblocking device would have been and will in the future be a better choice.
An "autoblocking device"? What's that?
In reply to: ...but i must ask, what would YOU have done?
I'd have belayed off my harness, and probably re-directed the rope through the anchor.
In reply to: if you say belay of your harness with an atc/tube -your- flat wrong, you would definity not have good control at this stance using that technique. it leaves a good chance of you getting yanked off the ledge and losing control of the belay than your percieved risk of grigri failure.
Actually, I'd have been tied-in, so I wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge. So, you weren't tied it? This just keeps getting better.
In reply to: i'm definitly more than open to constructive criticsims.
Well, by my count, 4 people have told you that you weren't belaying properly, and you've done nothing but denied it. That's a funny way of being open to criticism.
In reply to: oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented?
You posted a freakin' picture of it!
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jul 17, 2004, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented? You posted a freakin' picture of it! -Jay
See, when you belay with your right hand as the brake hand, and left as the guide, the cam faces out, with your hands in the position that picture shows.
By the way, you did tie in didn't you?
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onbelay007
Jul 29, 2004, 3:23 AM
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Wow, I finally just noticed this post. What's wrong with my pink rope? Well, besides being pink. It was on sale so I had to take advantage of it. Euroford, you were sitting on my rope and now I have proof!! You owe me a beer hahaha!
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brianthew
Jul 29, 2004, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge
heh...if only Devil's Lake had something half that....
Us midwesterners gotta take what we get.
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timpanogos
Jul 29, 2004, 4:13 AM
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Standup, turn around, butterfly your rope over your tie-in/cord-a-let, re-direct the belay throught the PP or some other point on your anchor.
1. your grigri problem is solved (and that is scary, in solo aid, you simply sqeeze that cam while climbing up - doesn't take much sqeeze, and it appears you would have gotten plenty of it)
2. you are in super stable position for any fall/lowering that might be required
3. you can easily look over your shoulder and watch your second.
4. rope is stacked and ready to toss for rap, or tie off for walk-off.
Face up - anchor was great - belay had some potentially dangerous issues.
Chad
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norushnomore
Jul 29, 2004, 8:39 AM
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Why even bother bringing gri-gri on a trad climb?
That thing is heavy! And evil!
Belaying of the anchor is evil too.
Avoid both and you will be forgiven oval biners and non-lockers at that ;-)
Little bit of slack and a fall on a top rope can gen forces similar to those on a lead (1500lbs in the latest mag test). Most likely you don't have the angle perfect and all that force will go onto a single piece.
It will be pressed against the rock and biner gate might open.
Open oval is very weak: 7Kn or 1400lbs, it will break!
One by one all points might break! It is very likely that you will knock that third guy down as well. All three of you are doomed!
It is a pure luck that you are still with us
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curt
Jul 29, 2004, 8:47 AM
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Please post this same topic at analretentiveclimbers.com where you may gain some additional valuable feedback.
Curt
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sync
Jul 29, 2004, 11:37 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge heh...if only Devil's Lake had something half that.... Us midwesterners gotta take what we get.
Actually he was pretty close, the top of the bluffs are about 400 feet above the Lake. It's just that the base of the climb is only about 50 feet down.
:P
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billcoe_
Jul 31, 2004, 4:32 AM
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I misssed the Grigri orientation. Looks like JT is right.
It is common knowledge around these parts not to argue with JT.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?MotRecherche=Quick+Search&pays=0&Langue=en&Activite=0&Famille=9&SousFamille=74&Produit=203&Conseil=&ProduitAssocie=
They drew a picture of a skull and crossbones when the grigri was not oriented correctly. What would that tell you normally?
Again, anchor is fine by me. I usually just clip my climbing rope directly into the anchors - just a small note of personal preferance.
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musicman
Jul 31, 2004, 6:29 AM
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don't you guys notice anything!! j/k, the only thing i picked up one (maybe, but really doesn't matter) was that the draw on the nut was backwards, bent gate on the nut and straight gate on the rope end! j/k, seriously though, don't bash people for no true reasons, i love all these anchor posts, i learn alot more out of them then when people just bash on each other.
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climbfrog
Jul 31, 2004, 8:54 AM
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I would've felt better using hexes and tri-cams instead of the slcd's. But if all you had where the cams, use them! I would've. Besides, if you say that you places them above a constriction thats great. I've had many many cams skate on me in that rock at DL! I've lead Brintons Crack lots of times and know that you can set a bomber anchor at the top there. It's just really slick inside those cracks at the top, as well the bottom. People have already stated the obvious with the gri-gri
The anchor looks bomber to me though. My concern is, how are you anchored in to that system? And whats with the guy standing in the pic? A bit close to te edge eh? Hope his balance doesnt get thrown off.
HEY EURO!!! Do yourself a favor and pic up those tri-cams like you said you would in the other DL post! You guys wear helmets there?
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climbfrog
Jul 31, 2004, 9:03 AM
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Not too many people actually lead at DL. It's good to see you do. But I have to say, I've belayed directly off the anchor with a gri-gri with the handle facing the rock. What if the climber falls? How easy will it be to just simply lower the climber if you need to? It's a pain in the ass to lower a climber off of a gri-gri when the handle is facing the rock with all the climbers weight on it. Gri-gris are taken too lightly as fool proof. And as far as calling this the gri-gri patrol, you gave permission to have the pics posted and criticized and thats whats happening. IF you dont like it, just don't post another pic on here. It's for people to learn, you should learn from it.
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curtis_g
Jan 14, 2006, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock...
well I thought that was freakin' hilarious.
serriously, if it WASN'T a good anchor, or if yu WEREN'T EVEN SURE, then why were you climbing on it. You guys should know it's a good anchor or stick to girth hitching trees and chocks.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU PLACED A GOOD ENOUGH ANCHOR... DON'T CLIMB BY YOURSELF.
...you're just gunna be the next evening news headline that makes climbers look reckless.
but that's nothing against free soloing. that's just hardcore and everyone knows it...
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