|
holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 5:26 AM
Post #26 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Its like some virtuous entity that embodies all that is pure and good about climbing...the love of the rock, the understanding of our place on the rock, um...its the thing that keeps us from bolting cracks. Its what made the first climbers want to climb...before advertising and prana and competition and grades.
And if we talk about it we are likely to wear way too much jewelry.
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Aug 27, 2004, 5:33 AM
Post #27 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
alpnclmbr1,
In reply to: Boulder for power. Sport for endurance. Trad for your head. Mountains for your soul.
As much as I've never connected with bouldering and have always disdained sport (hell, I fought against chalk) - for an unavoidably "modern" world with a million+ climbers and "Over 2 Billion Bolts Served" - your comment (whether it is yours or someone elses, I've never seen it) is one of the best comments I've read in ages - well said and lived...
|
|
|
|
|
off_center
Aug 27, 2004, 5:52 AM
Post #28 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2004
Posts: 100
|
I traded my soul for a chocolate bar. It was yummy.
|
|
|
|
|
kachoong
Aug 27, 2004, 5:57 AM
Post #29 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 15304
|
Didn't Bart offload his for five bucks?
|
|
|
|
|
harshklimber
Aug 27, 2004, 2:40 PM
Post #30 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 1014
|
I think what's goin on here is some projection. Maybe you're feelin like you've lost YOUR soul climbing.
We all still seem to have it. :x
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Aug 27, 2004, 2:48 PM
Post #31 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: I think what's goin on here is some projection. Maybe you're feelin like you've lost YOUR soul climbing. We all still seem to have it. :x
I met a girl who sang the blues
and asked her for some happy news
but she just smiled
and climbed away
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Aug 27, 2004, 2:51 PM
Post #32 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
In reply to: I think it got bolted and then chopped, and then re-bolted and chopped again ..
ooohhhh, how very poignant and subtle that was. heh.
people climb for lots of different reasons, and i won't opine on which of them are good or bad. i am still but a humble noob myself.
that said, personally, i have two major types of interaction with climbers:
there is the internet type that climbsomething so aptly described. in which people are rude, and aggro, and gumbied out to all hellatiousness. they ask stupid questions, they give sarcastic and mean spirited answers, they get in huge arguments, they argue about politics and shoe rubber, and practice all manner of work boredom circle-jerkery. yours truly included. which is not to say that it's all bad here in dotcom land, people also interact in good ways here too.
but when i get out into the crags, and even more-so into the mountains, i experience climbers in a much different way. climbers seem to be what i might call "soulful". not all, but most, seem to be out, at least in part, to sniff the pine needles and snowflakes, and enjoy the exposure, beauty, and connection, that only climbing owns. those that can't appreciate those things are missing a big part of the experience for sure. however, i don't feel that those 'soul' things always have to be the focus in climbing; or that we even need to pigeon-hole ourselves into viewing some characteristics of climbing as soulful or not soulful. where does the soul of climbing really lie? is it in the mountain experience only? there are other attributes of climbing which can be very satisfying, like the objective challenge of a route, the feeling of making hard moves, or the comraderie of bouldering with your homies.
i think perhaps that climbing has not lost its soul, but is merely out-growing it.
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Aug 27, 2004, 2:57 PM
Post #33 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: i think perhaps that climbing has not lost its soul, but is merely out-growing it.
Maybe. Or is it that this experience is very intimate and private to some, if not most? They don't find it easy to articulate these feelings, so they instead stick to the blather and pomp. It's pretty much a common theme. It's an internal process not easily described or shared.
|
|
|
|
|
cchildre
Aug 27, 2004, 3:28 PM
Post #34 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2004
Posts: 671
|
Would one respond if they truly were a soul climber? I think it could be considered a little harsh to bash on those that climb for other reasons than soul or self gratification. This is typical of any sport that moves from relative obscurity into the mainstream popularity. The pioneers of the sport are usually down on all the newcomers because they feel like they are being invaded. You solitude is slowly fading away as more and more people flock to the crag. It is totally understandable to feel threatend. The real problem is all those posers out there and those that do no appreciate climbing for what it is. They are generally easy to find. You just need to follow the tail of beer cans and trash.
|
|
|
|
|
keinangst
Aug 27, 2004, 3:33 PM
Post #35 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 1408
|
I know the name of a good resouler... and He's very reasonable :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
cchildre
Aug 27, 2004, 3:36 PM
Post #36 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2004
Posts: 671
|
elvislegs wrote: there is the internet type that climbsomething so aptly described. in which people are rude, and aggro, and gumbied out to all hellatiousness. they ask stupid questions, they give sarcastic and mean spirited answers, they get in huge arguments, they argue about politics and shoe rubber, and practice all manner of work boredom circle-jerkery. yours truly included.
I think the reason everyone is all pissed and arro on the internet mainly because of the very reason that we are at home or at work and not out on the rock doing what we love. At the crag on in the hills we all blissful because it's our happy place :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 27, 2004, 3:53 PM
Post #38 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Hmmm, where is the soul of climbing? Has anyone seen the Soul? Where's the Confounded Soul?
Is it to be found in the old duffer admiring the pretty trees and the sunny blue skies from a pitch up After Six?
Is it in the Muir-like naturalist who scampers up peaks just to see the pretty flowers and to revel in the freedom of the wilderness?
Is it to be found in the zen boulderer who secretly returns again and again to the same unknown boulder field to crank problems she has no intention of telling anyone about?
Is it the interested and friendly master down at the gym who always seems to have a friendly word and telling yet short advice to the various noobs that cross his orbit?
Is it to be found in the historian who spends 5 years collecting a history of our sport?
Is it to be found in the brilliant mountaineering photographer who uses his climbing skills to obtain camera positions and lighting that more earth bound photogs cannot aspire toward?
Is the spirit of climbing to be found along the line of beany wearing pad people chanting "Hi-Ho Hi-Ho, Off to Boulder We Go" as a line of the mattress sporting climbers disappear in that odd Queen of Hearts gait through the underbrush toward some insignificant boulders?
Is the soul of climbing to be found in a 20 year partnership of two men, who know each other's hearts so well they can predict their partner's words and deeds with telling accuracy?
Is the soul of climbing to be found in a magazine editor?
What of the Madison Ave. Marketing dude, using an image of a sport he has absolutley no connection to, is that the soul of climbing?
And what of a noob, putting on his harness for the first time, lacing up the foreign feeling shoes and touching the warm stone for the very first time, do you think there may be some soul in that?
Yeah, and what of the muscled and lean sport climbing machine, casually dancing up 5.12 and clipping bolts with 15 foot runnouts between them, as casual and relaxed as if she were walking along the beach? Are you telling me you believe there is no soul involved in that?
And the aid dude, recently divorced and secretly suicidal, strung out on some improbably little blobs of soft metal, risking it all just to swim in the anxiety and stress of defusing a bomb?
And what of the alpinist, who perhaps spends a month climbing some formerly obscure ridge up some sick peak that no one ever heard of?
And too, what OF the sponsored climber who has spent a lifetime cultivating skills so that she could earn a living from climbing?
The seasoned guide, that guy who knows the canyon and all its climbs so well he WROTE the guidebook, what of him? Does he lack soul as he carefully leads his clients to summits and climbs they could never accomplish on their own?
And what of the ethical police who work to protect the historical legacy of boldness at select climbing areas?
And also, don't forget the New Route Machine dude, Hilti-in-hand, that spends thousands of his own $ to create and open new sport climbs all over the land?
And that aging gumby you see in REI, fingering shiney new gear in the hopes it will grant him access to realms heretofore off limits? Why do we pick on this man... for simply TRYING?
And the clerk in the climbing store? The one who doesn't even climb outside the gym and has no real desire to do so? Is there any soul in that?
And the gear manufacturer, the one who spends advertising $ in magazines and internet forums, for the crass capital purposes of selling more equipment and too, making a living from the sport she loves? Is she to be granted a soul too?
And while we're at it, what of the Tin Man? He had no heart at all, yet his soul contained sufficient mettle to take on the Wicked Witch of the West just to help out a new friend?
And what of the Tin Men of the Mountains, complete strangers who fly in to rescue us when things have gone terribly wrong, risking their lives for complete strangers?
What about the fumbling tradsters who never really climbed as hard as they thought they did, will never rise to the pinnacles of performance and other than idle fantasies, have never really aspired to do so? Do they have soul too?
And what of all us blabbermouths who while away the boring hours in forums and beer buzzed lawn chair talk on a nice Saturday afternoon in the mountains? Is the soul of climbing reflected in its bar-talk?
Is it the responsibility of the older generations of climbing to force feed their vision of soul down the throats of youngsters who won't understand any better than those oldsters did when their fathers counseled that the younger generations were foundering.
Each and every generation, whether they like it or not, whether they accept the responsibility or shirk the call of duty, each and every generation, in fact, each and every climber, from aging zen master to sponsored flesh boy to trembling noob, contains the spirit of climbing and the soul of the sport and gets to reinvent anew, each and every time they head out and up, the soul of climbing. It is not for the old and in the way to tell a 16 year old how to appreciate climbing. It should be enough to serve as example, not critic.
I eventually came to not only appreciate my father, but to be very much like him. But I grew up to that perspective, it wasn't foisted upon me.
People inside and outside this group tend to blast the less than experienced members of this site. I tell you, THEY are just as much a part of the soul of climbing as is the peevish, aging master would would laugh and denigrate their novice ways because that's how HE was treated as a noob.
It's ALL soul, whether you like that soul or not.
Cheerio
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Aug 27, 2004, 3:53 PM
Post #39 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: I think the reason everyone is all pissed and arro on the internet mainly because of the very reason that we are at home or at work and not out on the rock doing what we love. At the crag on in the hills we all blissful because it's our happy place :)
Exactamundo. Ever notice how irritable climbers get in winter? The rock climbers, that is. The ice climbers are out searching for ice.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Aug 27, 2004, 3:57 PM
Post #40 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Climbing has no soul. Climbing is an activity. Maybe climbing can be a way to find something, but only if you want to find, and allow yourself to find whatever it is you think might be there.
I'm not wearing any jewelry.
I also kind of like what timstich, wallress, and holdplease said pretty much, but only if they promise never to get a Mr. T starter kit hehehe.
Now if you asked what has happened to climber's souls... but that's none of my business.
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Aug 27, 2004, 4:00 PM
Post #41 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
In reply to: In reply to: i think perhaps that climbing has not lost its soul, but is merely out-growing it. Maybe. Or is it that this experience is very intimate and private to some, if not most? They don't find it easy to articulate these feelings, so they instead stick to the blather and pomp. It's pretty much a common theme. It's an internal process not easily described or shared.
i think i see what you are saying. kind of sounds like the male ego.
|
|
|
|
|
holmeslovesguinness
Aug 27, 2004, 4:03 PM
Post #42 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 548
|
In reply to: Seriously. In my opinion this defiance of gravity has lost it's soul in recent years and has become, for the most part, an aggro/angst filled self absorbed pursuit.
Not that I qaulify as an old timer by any means, but I'm going to have to argue that the proportion of climbers who are aggro and self absorbed has not changed significantly since this little activity got started. It seems to be the nature of the game.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Aug 27, 2004, 4:05 PM
Post #43 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
With all due respect, f*ck you. And I mean that in the most sympathetic way possible.
Who are you to claim climbing has lost its soul? Have you looked into the soul of today's climbers? Really into their souls? What do you see? I don't know very many people that well, but I know a few. Kate has seen a spark. I have seen a spark. A spark that can't be put out by rainy approaches, by injury, by fear, by setbacks, by family, by all one's own doubts and failings. A spark that persists in the face of commercialism, of lost access to beloved crags. A spark that burns its owner, that cannot be put out, that drives the climber further and further afield in search of... well, I don't know what.
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. It's not in the comps or the gyms, or the pretty magazines. But it's out here.
So honestly... what is it you see? And what don't you see?
GO
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Aug 27, 2004, 4:21 PM
Post #44 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: In reply to: I think the reason everyone is all pissed and arro on the internet mainly because of the very reason that we are at home or at work and not out on the rock doing what we love. At the crag on in the hills we all blissful because it's our happy place :) Exactamundo. Ever notice how irritable climbers get in winter? The rock climbers, that is. The ice climbers are out searching for ice.
It's not like that in the south bucko. I mean, souless bucko.
And hey Dingus, WTF happened to you, it seems you took this thread very seriously. Just one question, did you spontaneously sprout gold chains around your neck as you typed? But what you wrote was nice nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
|
jerrygarcia
Aug 27, 2004, 4:34 PM
Post #45 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 837
|
In reply to: Where are the climbers that can appreciate the flora and fauna? A sunrise? The purity of the wilderness? Those that knew how to keep weather eye open? Climbers for whom the route wasn't the only reason for the climb? How many "Soul" climbers are out there?
You've described me exactly and im living in Lake Tahoe if you need me.
|
|
|
|
|
greg8941
Aug 27, 2004, 4:34 PM
Post #46 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2004
Posts: 19
|
I like that.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 27, 2004, 4:39 PM
Post #47 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: And hey Dingus, WTF happened to you, it seems you took this thread very seriously. Just one question, did you spontaneously sprout gold chains around your neck as you typed? But what you wrote was nice nonetheless.
I thought it was a good piece. Read into it whatever you will.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 27, 2004, 4:40 PM
Post #48 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: Not that I qaulify as an old timer by any means, but I'm going to have to argue that the proportion of climbers who are aggro and self absorbed has not changed significantly since this little activity got started. It seems to be the nature of the game.
Alester Crowley.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 27, 2004, 4:42 PM
Post #49 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: Not that I qaulify as an old timer by any means, but I'm going to have to argue that the proportion of climbers who are aggro and self absorbed has not changed significantly since this little activity got started. It seems to be the nature of the game.
Alester Crowley.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 27, 2004, 4:43 PM
Post #50 of 92
(6690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: Not that I qaulify as an old timer by any means, but I'm going to have to argue that the proportion of climbers who are aggro and self absorbed has not changed significantly since this little activity got started. It seems to be the nature of the game.
Alester Crowley.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
|
