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thewyseclimber
Sep 3, 2004, 1:29 AM
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I'm working on building up a good sport rack, and so far I have 10 draws. I bought them without having had much leading experience, so I didn't really know what to get, just knew basic facts about draws and stuff. Anyway, I went ahead and ordered some BD quickwires, and I enjoy them thus far, but I haven't led more than 10 or 15 routes. Anyway. The point of my post. I bought BD because I know the brand is well-known, and from the research I had done, people generally liked their BD draws. So, what determines the brands you buy? Obviously from previous experience if you're replacing a piece of gear or expanding your rack, you're going to buy what's worked well for you or what you've found is comfortable to use. How much difference does it make what brand you buy? Does anybody buy solely Metolius, Trango, Mammut, etc just because of the name? Seems illogical to me, but in general do you find that one manufacturer makes generally much better gear than another?
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cliffhanger9
Moderator
Sep 3, 2004, 1:44 AM
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In reply to: I'm working on building up a good sport rack, and so far I have 10 draws. I bought them without having had much leading experience, so I didn't really know what to get, just knew basic facts about draws and stuff. Anyway, I went ahead and ordered some BD quickwires, and I enjoy them thus far, but I haven't led more than 10 or 15 routes. Anyway. The point of my post. I bought BD because I know the brand is well-known, and from the research I had done, people generally liked their BD draws. So, what determines the brands you buy? Obviously from previous experience if you're replacing a piece of gear or expanding your rack, you're going to buy what's worked well for you or what you've found is comfortable to use. How much difference does it make what brand you buy? Does anybody buy solely Metolius, Trango, Mammut, etc just because of the name? Seems illogical to me, but in general do you find that one manufacturer makes generally much better gear than another?
I definitely research stuff before i spend any money...i search around online mostly as it is the easiset way to see a wide range of products and read reviews about the gear...There is no one sole company that makes perfect gear for everything so the only way you will see anyone with a whole rack of all BD stuff, is if they work for BD...even then most people wouldnt do this...you pick the right too for the job. For example, i used a typical BD ATC but the biner comes from OmegaPac
its all on past experiences (of either my own experiences, those of friends, or reviews i read online) and where i can find the best deal on the best gear for me.
Check out the Gear Guide here on rc.com also. This is designed specifically for this dilema, to help research this massive range of products. You can see what the item looks like, read a description, see the price, click the link to the manufacturers site to research them and read about their quality control testing for example, and you can rate and review gear for others who may be interested in hearing your experiences with a product and see if it would work for them.
rock on!! :mrgreen:
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cgailey
Sep 3, 2004, 1:58 AM
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As you climb and use different gear, you will start to get an idea of what works for you. I tend to like DMM and Petzl biners and draws, mammut slings, Metolius, CCH, and BD cams, Metolius Harnesses, Metolius and BD chocks, and mammut ropes, but that by no means always determines my purchases (I own a major hodge podge of gear). Of course a good deal is hard to pass up, but I won't buy something just because it's cheap. Use other's stuff and you will start to get an idea what you really like and why you like it.
Have fun with your purchasing :D
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nmoroder
Sep 3, 2004, 2:10 AM
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I tend to do alot of research when purchasing gear and it seems that I have mostly BD stuff. I never had that intention, but I like thier products and most is the right price.
I am a deal hunter also... If I had an unlimited budget I might be sporting a quite different arsenal, but the stuff I own works for me and I am happy with it.
Take it into consideration, but don't let brand be THE deciding factor...
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thewyseclimber
Sep 3, 2004, 2:59 AM
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Sorry if I was unclear...I wasn't really asking for advice, although I can always use it, I just wanted to get a range of opinions on this. Thanks for the replies.
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reno
Sep 3, 2004, 3:11 AM
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In reply to: So, what determines the brands you buy? Obviously from previous experience if you're replacing a piece of gear or expanding your rack, you're going to buy what's worked well for you or what you've found is comfortable to use.
That about sums it up. I buy things I've used before and like. I don't buy stuff I have not used, or stuff I have used but don't like.
In reply to: How much difference does it make what brand you buy?
It depends on the climber. I've climbed with folks (far better climbers than I am, not that this is hard to do...) who couldn't care less the brand of cam. Then I've climbed with folks who float up .11R lines if they've got their rack, but struggle on a .7 with mine. Depends.
In reply to: Does anybody buy solely Metolius, Trango, Mammut, etc just because of the name?
I do and I don't. I only buy clothing from two different companies, because their stuff is what I like best, not because of a name. Ditto gear: cams, biners, etc.
In reply to: Seems illogical to me, but in general do you find that one manufacturer makes generally much better gear than another?
There is no rule anywhere that says the world must be logical.
I find that certain companies make gear that works better for me than other companies. I prefer WC Friends and Trango Flex Cams to BD Camalots and CCH Aliens. That's my preference. Others I've climbed with prefer Camalots and Aliens. Others still prefer DMM and Metolius.
It's all about what works best for you, on the routes you climb, at the level you climb, and within the budget you have. The name means nothing.
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tattooed_climber
Sep 3, 2004, 6:00 AM
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cams=DMM BD
lockers=DMM
Draws=DMM BD
harness=Arc'Teryx
slings=on sight BD
Nuts=BD Metolious
Hexs=BD WC Metolious
tri-cams (smallest)
lots of things influence brands...trust, price, features, weight, politics, if its nice to work with, etc, etc, etc...
but one thing remains, research and play around with stuff.....
if you're at the crag and you see i guy with a cam you've never used before, ask him about it (hell, he may even let you give it a try if he's cool)....(for example)
look at what youre friends use...go to gear shops, rc.com, etc.....do a seach on exact products (DMM vs. Metolious cams for example...)
goodluck in your search for what gear ya like..
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overlord
Sep 3, 2004, 10:42 AM
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i try not to be specific brand dependant, i just read the reviews, get my hands on stuff and see how it works and then buy the best option.
and btw, the BD quickwires i saw had really skinny slings. i prever cassin wiregates.
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robbovius
Sep 3, 2004, 11:55 AM
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I have not really spent alot of time researching brands and peoples opinions of them before purchasing gear, and thus my rack includes Gear by, BD, Chouinard, Trango, Rock Empire, Metolius, Cassin, CAMP, OP, WC, HB, and DMM. Brand Identification has more to do with teh buyers mindset and percioeved quality than how well the gear actually works. not to mention that ANY gear you buy as to mee UIAA standards and carry CE certification. It really comes down to what types of gear you find that you are most comfortable using, and which you can place with the greatest confidence.
I know some will disagree withme, but I find that some gear, like nuts & carabiners, are fundamentally interchangeable regardless of brand, (so buy whatever strikes your fancy/pleases your wallet) whereas some, like Tricams, are only made by one manufacturer, and thus, if you want Tricams you're buying CAMP, because that's all there is.
I find, personally, that the type of gear and it's price, rather than brands of gear, are a much greater decision point for me in gear purchases. For cams, I personally tend to prefer single-stem cams with swaged wire loop ends, versus single stems with swaged sling eyelets (like current BD camalots) and U-stems. (This is a personal preference that has developed over the course of my lead-learning during this curent climbing season. )
Thus, I've got mostly Rock Empire Flex, Trango Flex, CCH Alien, and a new Cassin Cancam (on the way actually, though I'll probably get some more of those, the price is very good) with three BD camalots. I have 3 u-stems, Metolius 2 & 3 4CUs, and a Chouinard (old BD) #3 Camalot, and of those the only one that sees regular use is the Chouinard #3. Being able to comapre all these different brands of cams have also shown me that as far as build quality and materials, the differences are pretty much neglilgible.
I have also noticed that each individual leader seems to do best with his or her own rack, perhaps because they are used to the gear, and rack it in a specific order, and eventually come to know intuitively which pieces will fit which rock features.
to sum up, my feeling is, don't be overconcerned with the brand name, try a variety of gear, and find out what feels best to you. Base your purchasing decision on what works for you, not what the name is on the
box.
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lcerick
Sep 3, 2004, 1:24 PM
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Most go from what they have experience using. Some you need to feel in your hand, what is comfortable. One may be better than another, but its sloppy in your hand. -or maybe the color isn't coordinated to your rack
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kimmyt
Sep 3, 2004, 1:32 PM
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Since I'm in the (agonizingly slow) process of building a rack, I tend to just buy what I need at the time. I'll usually peruse the reviews on this website, talk to those people I climb with and get their opinion. This usually leads to a dozen varied and disagreeing opinions. So, if a product gets exceptional reviews from a variety of people, I'll go with that. If not, I'll usually go with what's on sale, then I can figure what I like for myself.
I have the BD draws Overlord spoke of. Got 'em for ten bucks each (not too shabby...). The sling is thin on them, but that's because it's Spectra or whatever. Anyway, using it doesn't bother me. Plus the sling is a bit stiffer than other draws I've used. I sorta like that, makes reaching the bolt a bit easier for a shorty like me.
K.
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vegastradguy
Sep 3, 2004, 2:47 PM
Post #12 of 17
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I research and look for what gear will do the best job of doing what I want it to do. If theres more than one piece out there by different manufacturers for this (and there generally is), then it comes down to how i like how that particular piece functions and feels in my hand.
I have no brand loyalty, only preference of function.
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dingus
Sep 3, 2004, 2:52 PM
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The little tag with the manufacturers logo, usually.
DMT
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keinangst
Sep 3, 2004, 3:04 PM
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A full-on feasibility study, including a cost/benefit analysis. I generally farm these things out to an analysis firm in India, but I'll sometimes do the cash flow analysis and debt service calculations in-house due to the sensitivity of the decision.
I'd be glad to help you, I charge $60 an hour. You will need to send me a personal financial statement, three years of tax returns, and a list of things you are considering purchasing (and of course, the type of climbing you are planning to do.)
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musicman
Sep 8, 2004, 3:52 AM
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lots of people (americans at least) seem to be proud of there american climbing company, Black Diamond. but really, just like everyone else has said, i read millions of reviews, talk to friends, and price always plays into it.
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holdplease2
Sep 8, 2004, 5:34 AM
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I wager $10,000 or my rack (you guess which is worth more)
For Noobs: The number one determiner of what gear is purchased for the new climber is what gear he/she learned on. Metolius knows this. THIS is the reason for the rangefinder cam...Metolius hopes that climbing schools/camps/guides will use this cam as a teaching tool for the noob...then the noob uses the cam, then the noob buys the cam. This gimick is not targeting experienced folks...experienced folks can make fun of it all you (we) want...if metolius does the smart thing and gives these cams away to guide schools, they will be laughing all the way to the bank.
For Semi-Experienced Folks with Plenty of Money: Brand recognition and status. If you buy from a trusted brand name, you won't be getting screwed, so you don't have to worry. And a guy with a new SUV or custom truck and caper shell won't be climbing on robot cams...sorry! Its BD, Metolius, Aliens, and for some wanks Tech Friends.
For Semi-Experienced Folks without Much Money: Bang for the buck. They have probably learned their lesson with older robot cams, etc, but may be lured towards DMM or Trango for the cost savings, hoping for quality while getting a break on price. These folks DO THEIR HOMEWORK like pros, because they know they can sniff out bad gear if they get enough information, thanks to their experience.
-Kate.
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antigrav
Sep 8, 2004, 5:50 AM
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And the *very experienced* I guess use the gear they get for free from whatever company they get to sponsor them... :)
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