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e_free
Sep 16, 2004, 10:39 AM
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I posted this in the "Accidents & injuries," but I also really thougt that it would be good for the ladies 8^) to look this over with regard to blood loss at altitude (during your period for instance, as I found, although I did get a nice hematoma on the right quad that STILL has a welt). Feedback?
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So let me begin by qualifying what I am about to say with, "call me an idiot, but...." :?
I moved to Hawaii in Janary 2004, and live at sea level in Waikiki. And I decide to go home and climb with my brothers in Yosemite/Tuloumne Meadows over Labor Day wekend. And this is what happened.
We climb somewhere between 6-7000 feet (Lembert Dome in Tuolumne Meadows), and as we made the approach my head was pounding. Scrambling with a VERY light pack made me light-headed and blurry-visioned. Climbing a 5.4 chimmney was difficult though I feel comfy at 5.8/9, and I felt physically weak and shakey. Sustained cardio made me focus and control my breathing which felt like of like sucking air though a straw. :oops: I slowed down a LOT (which was a little frustating at first), and was fine after that, until waiting on a ledge for my turn to rap. The sun set and I was afraid I would become hypothermic even though I layered well. It got to the point that my brother had to hold me for increased body warmth because I was shaking so hard.
I am not an inexperienced person. I grew up climbing, taught wildernss survival, and have been an experienced EMT for four years. I feel at home in the Sierras. I have traveled quite a bit and adjsted quickly and easily everywhere i have gone. This little episode is a bit freaky and caught me off guard and I want to ask for your feedback (other than"youre an idiot").
Before I climbed:
I'm 23 and pretty healthy. Used to play water polo. I average 4 hours of sleep a night theweek before I leave & am working 9-5 at a bank. I've put on 5 pounds eating chololate sitting on my behind woking at said bank. I sleep about 5 hours on the plane and make sure I hydrate well. I land at 1130pm and roll out of town at 1, landing in camp 4 ( :D )at about 4am and crash. I have now guzzed about 3 quarts of water. Sleep in til 11 eat breakfat. Eat breakfast and guzzle another pint. I'm on my period so there goes a cup of blood. I also managed to beat the CRAP out of my right quad with a blunt injury right after i land (dont ask, it was unforseable), which I iced all the way to Yosemite. I took 800mg ibuprophen on the plane for cramps, but decided against taking it again as I didnt want my already smaller amount of circulating blood to thin more, especially at altitude. I figue all the way around, I know my body pretty well, and after resting all night in Yosemite, I should be fine, since 100 feet's dfference between my hometown and hawaii isnt that big a deal.
After I climbed:
In retropect, I will never again climb anywhere over 4-5,000 feet without giving my body time to acclimate. I will also take the loss of smaller amounts of blood or "minor" injury more seriously in effecting performance altitude: between the injury to my thigh, my period, and peeing out or using the water I drank (in conjunction with lack of sleep and some weight gain) all these things began rolling ogether and I begn reacting with similar syptoms to theay my body reacts wen I donate blood. I have tyically low blood pressure of 106-110 systolic, and near the end of my pint donation, I stop bleeding and react to low blood volume IN A NORMAL environment AT sea level. It takes about 2-3 days of overhydrating for me to comensate and feel normal again. A pint is 2 cups, and women on periods lose about 1 cup...combied with the injury ... you get my point.
The Crux:
-Never assume that your body will always react as it has before :roll:
-Know wilderness medicine/survival skills and use thm
-Be prepared to get your butt off the rock you climbed onto
-If it doesnt feel right, no matter how familiar it is, dont do it
-Have a climbing partner who also does all these things too
I never thoght that this would happen to me. Im not a "prissy" girl. typically I suck it up and move on, and in fact you might think I'm blowing things out of proportion, but let me tell you, the alitude changed things drastically for me as it never has before. It may never again, but I'm not about to assume so after this.
As the Glen Berteau says, "The chances of something happening may be one in a million, but when it happens to YOU, they're one out of one!"
-E.
P.S. Thanks to my brother for cuddling me. even if it did take hypothermia
P.P.S. If you have actually taken the time to read this LONG :shock: post, please also take the time to give me some feedback please
And forgiveness for poor typing :roll: :roll:
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woodthrush
Sep 16, 2004, 12:54 PM
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It sounds like you just went too high, too fast. From sealevel to 7K on a weekend would give most climbers those symptoms. I'm not sure what your question even is, really. You seemed to answer it all yourself. But as for your period, it shouldn't even affect your performance - you only lose a few ounces over a bunch of days (not even a whole CUP, though everyone os different...) and your body can replace it easily. It had to be the lack of acclimitization.
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e_free
Sep 18, 2004, 4:51 AM
Post #3 of 12
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I was just wondering if anyone had experienced or heard of anything similar happening. 6-7k is a relatively middle altitude that I have never had a problem with before. It REALLY caught me off guard me that I was so sensative to the temperature change and that climbing was so hard to do :shock: :? :(
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olive
Sep 18, 2004, 6:41 PM
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Yep, you do really answer most of your questions yourself. However, there was something that caught my attention. You said you averaged 4 hours of sleep a night before you traveled. And then you traveled etc. Is that too low or normal for you? I found that during college I was fine if I averaged 5-6 hours a night, and I would function normal after 4 hours. However, over the years, I realized that I had to sleep 7-8 hours to feel normal and I just cannot function with anything below 6. My periods leave me generally weak. So in my case, if I combined traveling, little sleep and periods, I would have expected to not feel good. I adjust to altitude well, too, but I found that If I already start the trip tired, the first few days of adjusting were harder and I felt more tired than usual.
I dont know what your normal sleeping requirements are, but maybe feeling overall exhausted had contributed to your situation.
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winglady
Sep 18, 2004, 7:54 PM
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I can't imagine having your period had anything to do with the problems you experienced. As others have said, lack of sleep and insufficient time to adjust to a change in altitude seem more likely. Also, it sounds like you may have even over-hydrated during the prior several hours (but, perhaps I misunderstood the time frame for the 3.5 quarts of water you drank). Then, there's also jet-lag.
I went on a trek in Nepal where we acclimatized slowly, and reached an elevation of 17,500'. None of the women -- several of whom had their periods during the 3.5 week trek -- had any problems during their periods. The key, I think, is to give yourself time to adjust, both to altitude and to jet-lag!
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e_free
Sep 18, 2004, 9:09 PM
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Well this is what really gets me about hte ordeal.
I grew up in California, and hav never had issues liek this before. Differences in elevation:
California hometown: 88' above sea level
Hawaii: sea level
Had a distict problem this time but never before :shock: :?:
Thanks, ladies, for your thoughts.
Major differences between this climb and others:
time difference (3 hours earlier)
tired
weather/temp
88 feet in altitude
and my period :?
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climbinggurl
Sep 19, 2004, 12:06 AM
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Registered: Sep 6, 2004
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i hate having my period while climbing, i feel so weak! i feel like im have a cow! wut im trying 2 say is that i cant climb! i can but not do a 5.9 or - 5.11 course! i can only do 5.4, 5.3 or just climb! its horrible! i hate it! but wut can WE do about it we all have 2 go - that! dont yall agree :oops: :oops:
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lazygirl
Sep 21, 2004, 8:08 AM
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Have you ever climbed in Yosemite before this incident?
My point is you say you are comfortable at 5.8/5.9, but is that Yosemite 8/9 or everywhere else 8/9. Some 5.4 Yosemite chimmnies are very difficult and awkward. I climb at about 5.10 in Red Rock, during my first climbing trip to Yosemite I became more exhausted then I have ever been climbing and I was on a 5.6 chimmney. My body gets very overwhelmed during certain Yosemite climbs. However, since I spent 3 weeks there this summer I feel a lot better on the rock. Yosemite takes a certain amount of endurence and stength that you don't find in other places. It is very easy to find yourself getting your butt whipped on what you think would normally be easy for you. It happens to a lot of people who go there for the first time. I think you may just need to go there, take it slow and let your body get use to the rock.
But, if you are use to Yosemite then nothing I have to say is any help to you.
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e_free
Sep 23, 2004, 12:07 PM
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Hi Lazy,
I was climbing at Lembert Dome. It is at a higher elvation than the Yosemite valley floor where I slept; I could trot around fine til we went higher. The issue of climbing difficulty was directly related to not being acclimated. :shock:
I was hypoxic (lack of oxygen at the cellular level) because my body did not have time to adjust and compensate for doing the same amount of effort with less oxygen, like a smoker's body learns to compensate over time for the lack of oxygen [/start] until the body finally learns to inhale based on the rising level of co2 rather than decreasing 02... sick eh? :cry: You can actually cause this kind of person to stop breathing by giving them oxygen... thats why you see a lot of emphysema patients with the o2 hose in their nose pumping out at 2-5mL rather than the mask at a rate of 20-25mL that a non-smoker would be given [/end]
In any case, in the future, I will take at least 1 day - 2 days preferabley - to acclimate once passing the 6000' mark, coming from living at sea level
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sassinesuss
Sep 24, 2004, 3:05 AM
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Registered: Apr 22, 2004
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I've actually wondered about this topic quite a bit myself. I noticed that the only time I have any real problems adjusting to a "moderate" (5000-8000ft) altitude is the first 3 days of my period. I get dizzy, weak and have a harder time acclimatizing in general. I noticed this trend much through accident and journal entries. Ski season is what really tipped me off, it was easier to see the regular trend develop... that's when I finally put 2 & 2 together. So, I shrugged and would allow myself to go slower or to maybe go rock climbing and save an alpine adventure for another day (it didn't really effect my skiing much, except that I'd spend more time in the lodge!) It's probably like PMS it effects women differently. I would love to see a study done on this. (and not with those freak super athletic women that don't have a period... a weekend warrior woman would show more realistic results.)
- Sassine
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e_free
Sep 28, 2004, 10:14 AM
Post #11 of 12
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An update from my doc 8^) :
after climbing incident is told:
doc: (a multi-marathoner)(with large grin) you're crazy
e: well, i came back in one piece for ya"
doc (a sports med & internal med specialist & a MARATHONER. geez.) says yes, i was mildly hypoxic, and not well acclimated. he attributes this mostly to:
1.) aside from being at sea level, me sitting on my butt for a month (I was a passenger in a non-moving car accident). basically they were monitoring me to be SURE i was fine after the accident & wouldnt let me run or anything.
2.) add that to the FAT bruise (you may recall me saying i got a blunt injury to my right thigh the night before i climbed). a bruise is internal bleeding if you don't know
3.)And then add the period and viola. an episode not to repeat :roll:
and im NOT crazy. HE's a marathoner! :shock: sheesh!
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e_free
Oct 11, 2004, 12:02 AM
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Conclusion to lembert dome epic :roll:
I tried to donate blood about a week ago. I recall saying in my original post that I reacted at altitude much like I reacted giving blood @ sea level. I ordinarilly have low bp (106-110 systolic), and when it drops to 100, I know my body will start to react within another 5mmhg, (knowledge from going into hypovolemic shock via vomiting due to GI virus, pneumonia, etc. Sucks to be sick!). I'm fairly small at 5'5". :?
So to prep for giving blood, I make sure I am well-hydrated at least 3 days ahead and maintain it, get lots of sleep, eat good meals, etc. I stop bleeding at half-way through (1 cup) :shock: and my body starts to react. Again. At sea level. In perfect health. For the second time donating blood.
Final medical analysis: I believe that my doc was right: blood loss heaviest days of period in addition to internal bleeding in my quad in combination with altitude worked a number on my body. I would contribute it to the significant trauma to my leg (which I definately underestimated) much more than the blood loss due to menstration, although I am certain it did not help.
Final thoughts:
As an EMT experienced with wilderness emergencies (I spent the vast majority of my time working in very rural areas in the wilderness for private corporations to care for their staff and clients), I think my perception has been to take care for everyone else first, without question. It is the only way to ensure quality care and mutual trust that kind of circumstance, where everything just sits on your judgement. If one staff member gets sick, the client's safety is at risk. So I push my own needs to the side to care for others. I think I did that well. I became boarderline hypothermic waiting for people to rap down: my brother and a 12 yr old kid, rigged together similar to a tandem dive, and then a 17 yr old kid to rap down. He had never done it before, the sun was almost gone, so I made him go before me. I still think that was the right move. Not desireable, but the best way to go in the given cirsumstances. I really am not sure - even now - he could have done it in the dark safely. I would much rather shake a bit than explain to his mother why he was injured in a fall and not be able to live with myself later.
I also perceive the truth that many times no one can take you down the mountain but yourself, though others may attempt to help and fail or endanger themselves int he process. Which is why taking care of yourself is critical to the team's safety. I think I did not do this well. If I had really been paying attention to my body I might not have gone up in the first place due to the new (and not nice) injury on my right quad, and so would not have needed my brother to keep me warm in the dark as I waited to rap down myself. It is a position he should not have been put in by my carelessness.
It seems, in all things, there is a balance. In any case, I am not making a big deal out of nothing (as someone inferred earlier). While it is true that nothing terrible happened as a result of that experience due to human error, it might have, and I take that seriously. When its your butt on the line, it matters. And when the butt belongs to someone else (especially someone you are responsible for or love), it REALLY matters! I said it in the beginning and I'll say it again:
The chances of something happening might be one in a million, but when it happens to you, its one out of one.
Lesson learned. :idea:
Will not be forgotten.
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