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bubba
Sep 17, 2004, 11:45 PM
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What are people's thoughts on hauling with a dynamic rope? I'm new to aid and there are some routes near my area that I'd like to try, but I'd prefer not to have to buy another rope..
Thanks.
b.
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lambone
Sep 18, 2004, 12:25 AM
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waste of energy
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noshoesnoshirt
Sep 18, 2004, 1:19 AM
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It works ok. sure, you get some rope stretch which makes it seem like a bit more work, but it's no too bad.
A more serious consideration is the wear it'll put on your rope; I wouldn't want to do any long heavy hauls with my leadline. For short stuff, light loads, no bad edges, it's ok.
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epic_ed
Sep 18, 2004, 1:36 AM
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A serious waster of energy. There are some strategies where using a dynamic line would make sense, but if you're going to be hauling heavy loads on the grade V/VI stuff, get the static line.
If you're only planning to do a grade II/IV and the climbing strategy makes it a good idea to have a second dynamic line, then you could get away with it. without getting homicidal by the end of the climb.
Ed
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bigwalling
Sep 18, 2004, 1:46 AM
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Squamish walls are short, you'll be fine.
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wonderbread
Sep 18, 2004, 2:50 AM
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The first time I climbed El Cap (the nose) we used a dynamic line. It was more work definitely, but it's not that big a deal. Especially if you are just getting into wall climbing. Most people will quit shortly after starting and have a static line laying around the house. So I say if you're just getting into it, use an old dynamic. If for some odd reason you enjoy aid climbing then make the investment, it is a wise one once you're a wall climber.
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holdplease2
Sep 21, 2004, 4:12 AM
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Static vs Dynamic - Done both on actual walls (woah!) for enough pitches that I will state my opinion...as an opinion, but not a fact. Here's the thought:
Dynamic:
* You have to get the stretch out of the rope. If you are solo, this happens when you release the bag from the lower anchor onto a barely stretched line. It is sickening to see your 200+ pound load sink 20 feet below your belay on lower-out. On a 2:1 haul, this is 40 extra feet of hauling effort. On a 3:1...gees, its 60 feet. But once you are hauling, it barely matters.
* HOWEVER, once you get it moving it is NOT a huge waste of energy. In fact, the "oscilations" of the bag on the dynamic line can be used to your advantage, making the hauling actually easier.
* Nonetheless - Would you rather haul an extra 10-15 feet on every pitch or be *done* climbing when your lead line gets a core shot? Hmmm? A spare static line is a huge insurance policy.
* Don't ignore Pmyche's comment about one rope cutting more readilly than the other. I don't know if its true or not...but I tell you what. Nothing is more upsetting to me on a wall than watching my haul line grate along an edge during lower out, or sway gently across one in the (50mph) wind...1500 feet up...while I furiously jug lead lines and clean, hoping to get to belay and get the line moving before...before pigs fly. Terrible.
Static
* The static line will be thinner than a leadabile dynamic line...and lighter. So if you have this crap tied to the back of your harness, you will be carrying less weight if you climb with an 8mil static, or even a 9.
* IF your bags get stuck on a knob on a slab or even a small roof...80 feet below the belay...and you are solo (no partner to free the bag) your yanking and pulling efforts will be transferred directly to the bag...not lost to stretch...when you have a dynamic haul line.
What will I do going forward? Despite my recent investment in a suhweet static line...I will probably use a dynamic line going foward. The value of a spare lead line CANNOT be understated, especially if you are kind of an idiot, like me.
Someday, after a beer, that you bought, that was imported, and cold, and tall, ask me why my sweet maxim 9.8 lead line is in 3 peices.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Sep 21, 2004, 7:29 AM
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kate:
.. can you share what happened to your lead line? -- i'm still in the camp that goes with 1 static and 1 dynamic ...
my lead line is 11mm, and my haul line is a static 10.sumthing ..
-- ricardo
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glockaroo
Sep 21, 2004, 2:40 PM
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In reply to: What are people's thoughts on hauling with a dynamic rope? I'm new to aid and there are some routes near my area that I'd like to try, but I'd prefer not to have to buy another rope.. Thanks. b.
If I was just getting into aid and I had an older dynamic rope that would serve for hauling, I would use it as such. Then i would put the money saved into some Aliens or offset brass wires.
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onelung
Sep 22, 2004, 6:29 AM
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Not a big deal, use what u got.
bill
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holdplease2
Sep 22, 2004, 6:37 AM
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Ricardo: I wrote a huge response to your question, with examples of how my spare dynamic line has saved my ass when my lead lines got stuck, damaged, or I short-roped myself when liking pitches.
It was long and glorious, but I accidentally deleted it. I can't type it again, too tired.
If I only take 2 lines on a climb in the future, both will be dynamic. If I take three (for fixing purposes) I will probably haul with a static.
Oh yeah...And I know a guy who lost complete control of his 300 pound pigs...they dropped 60 feet from his anchor and would have either shock loaded it on a static line, possibly taking him and the anchor with them, or reached the deck before hitting the backup knot.
Lucky for him, his hauling device engaged on the line somehow, stripping many feet of sheath from the rope and 'gently' stopping the pigs...
Static haul lines are unforgiving.
-Kate.
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bigwalling
Sep 22, 2004, 1:53 PM
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In reply to: Static haul lines are unforgiving.
So is hard aid :lol: :twisted:
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holdplease2
Sep 22, 2004, 5:30 PM
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Who said anything about hard aid?
Anyone asking this question or not knowing the answer and coming here to get it probably won't be seeing "hard aid" for a long time...myself included.
Give me a 5.9 hand crack and I'll show you and aid climber!
;)
-Kate.
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crotch
Sep 22, 2004, 6:01 PM
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It's probably worth testing out your haul system with whichever rope you decide on before getting on a wall. I found out the hard way that my ProTraxion didn't like my fat, fuzzy 10.5mm Stratos. The rope was just too thick and the cam didn't always bite right away. It's frustrating to haul a few feet and then lose that ground when the rope slips.
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lambone
Sep 23, 2004, 2:33 PM
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In reply to: But how many times have we witnessed or read about unplanned events where a weighted object is out of control or some other bizarre happening? Sh!t happens with alarming regularity, despite our prudence.
only once, and it was your bro Nick on the Leaning Tower....;)
i suppose It was a planned event, but I don't think he planned on swinging at least 100ft out from the wall....by the look on his face...good times!
my haulbag has only been out of control on the descent...several times. Last year when we got off the Tangerine Trip and had finally gotten off the Rappels of the East Ledges...my buddy was on the steep 3rd class section and let my piggy fly in a fit of panic. poor miss piggy bounced and bounced forever. She's still hanging tough though...
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moof
Oct 3, 2004, 9:35 PM
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I know at least beal was selling semi-static lines that have a few pecent stretch and are rated for up to a modest fall factor (0.3). Edelwiess claims theirs are good to a full factor 1 (worst case for a man sized pig). Anyone use these or know details?
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