|
climberterp
Sep 23, 2004, 11:45 PM
Post #1 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 386
|
Guys at the gym who watch you do a boulder problem or route, then, thinking it's easy b/c you were on it and didn't struggle much, try it and flail off and then say something like 'wow, that's really hard'. :evil:
Newsflash fellas.....just because a girl is on it doesn't mean it's easy. :?
Ever stop to consider I might be stronger and have better technique than you? Apparently not.
|
|
|
|
|
genevieve
Sep 24, 2004, 12:52 AM
Post #2 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 86
|
I suck at bouldering... so no, it never happened to me.
But if it would, I don't think a I would get mad or frustrated... In fact I would find it funny ;-)
How hard do you climb on boulders?
|
|
|
|
|
honeyhiker
Sep 24, 2004, 1:21 AM
Post #3 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 114
|
That's one of the many things I love about my boyfriend. He never makes sexist remarks or judgements. I've never heard any man in our "group" make a sexist remark of any kind ever either. It always surprises me when I see new threads on this because in my experience climbing isn't sexist at all. I don't go to gyms though so maybe its that environment.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
lehrski
Sep 24, 2004, 1:39 AM
Post #4 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 86
|
I'm weak and will probably never have it happen bouldering, but I have had it happen several times on thin cracks. I have very thin fingers and thin cracks are at least grade easier for me than for a guy with pudgy fingers. A couple of times I've led up a crack and a guy watching assumes it must be easy since a girl led it (had one say that) then gets thrashed on it. I found it more funny than annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
nire
Sep 24, 2004, 2:20 AM
Post #5 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 12
|
In reply to: Newsflash fellas.....just because a girl is on it doesn't mean it's easy. :? Ever stop to consider I might be stronger and have better technique than you? Apparently not.
It doesn't bother me.
I know the guys don't expect much from me but it is nice to show them that they shouldn't think that.
|
|
|
|
|
climberterp
Sep 24, 2004, 2:39 AM
Post #6 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 386
|
In reply to: A couple of times I've led up a crack and a guy watching assumes it must be easy since a girl led it (had one say that) then gets thrashed on it. I found it more funny than annoying.
I guess I found it more funny than annoying the first couple of times it happened, then it just started to bug me. Looking back on it I think it's mostly been guys who are new to climbing, so I guess they haven't been there long enough to have their assumptions challenged. :roll: Most of the guys I know who climb regularly aren't sexist, and those who are, well, I don't climb with em! 8^)
|
|
|
|
|
calamity_chk
Sep 24, 2004, 2:57 AM
Post #7 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2002
Posts: 7994
|
i suck at climbing so i dont have that problem. if i were good enough of a climber to have that "problem", i'd dig it.
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Sep 24, 2004, 6:25 AM
Post #8 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
In reply to: That's one of the many things I love about my boyfriend. He never makes sexist remarks or judgements. I've never heard any man in our "group" make a sexist remark of any kind ever either. It always surprises me when I see new threads on this because in my experience climbing isn't sexist at all. I don't go to gyms though so maybe its that environment. Chris
Among most experienced climbers, "heightist" remarks are more the norm. Like "Oh he/she is f*cked because of reach" Not always true, but frequently conjectured. The flip happens as well "I think you can make all the reaches on this" followed by planning the day around it and shorty misses a reach by like 8" or something, heh :)
|
|
|
|
|
tonithegreat
Sep 24, 2004, 5:35 PM
Post #9 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: 51
|
In reply to: Among most experienced climbers, "heightist" remarks are more the norm. Like "Oh he/she is f*cked because of reach" Not always true, but frequently conjectured. The flip happens as well "I think you can make all the reaches on this" followed by planning the day around it and shorty misses a reach by like 8" or something, heh :)
That is so true! As if being able to reach something means you could definitely send it! I can often reach things that other people can't, but putting my finger on a hold doesn't mean that I'm gonna be able to pull up on it.
Toni
|
|
|
|
|
crazygirl
Sep 24, 2004, 6:18 PM
Post #10 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2003
Posts: 595
|
this attitude bothers me sometimes, although i try not to read into it too much. sometimes, guys see me send a climb, think its easy, and then they are surprised that they can't do it. obviously this does not happen all the time, and people i regularly climb with are not like this, but still..
maybe we can get some feedback from the guys. why this attitude?
|
|
|
|
|
edge
Sep 24, 2004, 6:25 PM
Post #11 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
Personally, I know if I even see climberterp break a sweat or make a small noise, then I have no business on that problem... She's mad strong.
And I see it all the time too with n00bs watching my daughter. If a 16 year old girl can do it, then it must be easy. Not neccesarily!!
Interestingly, though, it can work the other way around. Meg often likes to do laps on routes that she has done before, such as for 4 by 4's or circuit training. Often some guy will be falling off the next route in her routine, only to have her walk up and hike. I feel bad for them, but what else should she do, alter her tried and true training methods?
It all comes down to opening a dialogue with someone, I think. If you distance yourself from new climbers, they see you as a primadonna. If you strike up a conversation, you become a new aquaintance who climbs hard.
My first post in the Ladies Room, BTW. Sorry for the intrusion...
|
|
|
|
|
climberterp
Sep 24, 2004, 9:06 PM
Post #12 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 386
|
In reply to: Personally, I know if I even see climberterp break a sweat or make a small noise, then I have no business on that problem... She's mad strong. And I see it all the time too with n00bs watching my daughter. If a 16 year old girl can do it, then it must be easy. Not neccesarily!! ...........My first post in the Ladies Room, BTW. Sorry for the intrusion...
Thanks edge :lol: Nice to know I'm not the only one to have experienced this.
Welcome to the Ladies Room! 8^)
|
|
|
|
|
eekeek
Sep 24, 2004, 11:37 PM
Post #13 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 21
|
In reply to: Guys at the gym who watch you do a boulder problem or route, then, thinking it's easy b/c you were on it and didn't struggle much, try it and flail off and then say something like 'wow, that's really hard'. :evil:
well... depending on the tone of voice, it can be considered a complement
for example, WOW! that's really hard! (ie you're really good and he can use some pointers from you) :)
|
|
|
|
|
sjhrabok
Sep 25, 2004, 3:59 AM
Post #14 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 1
|
I just started climbing about 4 months ago, and I progressed really quickly. And I found that there was alot of wicked girls that climbed/bouldered at the local gyms I went to in ottawa. Alot of the time I would get caught up taking turns tackling problems along side with them and having an amaizing time. I never really felt weird if a girl could out do me at a problem.
My personal view is that each individual posesses the ability to be as good as they want to be, be it man, woman or child. Some of the climbers that inspire me would be lynn hill or liv sansoz.
I've heard many other guys make reasons that women will never be as good as men because of just natural body type. The theory that women have different body design which makes it harder to be as powerfull or whatever other reason as men. I personally think that if this is true, doesn't that make a good women climber even better because of the more difficult conditions she has to surpass to get where she is?
Hope that sounds alright? Tell me what you think?
P.S. Also I assume you know im a male.
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Sep 25, 2004, 4:53 AM
Post #15 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: Guys at the gym who watch you do a boulder problem or route, then, thinking it's easy b/c you were on it and didn't struggle much, try it and flail off and then say something like 'wow, that's really hard'. :evil: Newsflash fellas.....just because a girl is on it doesn't mean it's easy. :? Ever stop to consider I might be stronger and have better technique than you? Apparently not.
Who the hell are these dudes you're climbing with? Ha ha ha! But I think this issue of feeling like we are being judged by appearances goes beyond the sexes. It's annoying to be "downrated" before you set hand to stone.
A former boss of mine named Sandy Richter loved exploiting this attitude amongst good ol' boys in the skeet shooting circles. You see, she was a national champion shooter. But she played it up about being a girl and enticed men into some pretty hefty wagers. Needless to say, she cleaned up and took the cash more often than not.
|
|
|
|
|
bad_lil_kitty
Sep 27, 2004, 7:30 PM
Post #16 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2004
Posts: 2341
|
Edge - I think it's fantastic that you and your daughter climb together. And you seem to have the right attitude about it. My father (albeit, we didn't climb) had a similar outlook to that which extended to other regards of my life: changing my own oil, checking sparkplugs, how to fix a flat tire, electrical maintenance, replace a toilet (LOL my brother and I got into an argument and I tossed his toothbrush down the toilet and flushed...), brick laying, among many other things...What was important to him was bringing up an independent child (regardless, of gender) that didn't need to depend on others to get things done...but more importantly, that not to care what other people think - their opinions of you isn't as important as the opinion you hold for yourself...So, now that I get off my soapbox...
(btw, Tim - I appreciated your post too)
That said... Regardless, of whether or not someone points out that a climb is easier bc a girl can do it is a bunch of BULLSHIZZIT - the point is moot. The important thing is not to let others piss you off - or disregard what you love doing, which is climbing - if they are discouraging, find other folks to climb with - or, tell to bugger off... Tell them, if it's that easy why don't they accept a far more challenging challenge - give birth and endure years of periods!
Love hugs and kisses
Kitty
LOL but i have to throw in, i once dated this incredibly intelligent jackofanass who prided himself in his chess skills - too bad i kicked his arse in checkers --- the shades of red he turned...i didn't jump around when i won, i just sat there...my point, we are all good at things and some things we're not....it's allllll good.
|
|
|
|
|
magpie
Sep 28, 2004, 3:16 AM
Post #17 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 118
|
What I find much more annoying is extra beta-spewing (routes or bouldering). There is an assumption while you're trying to work something out that if you're a girl, you need/want beta. I'll ask if I want it- lemme figure it out myself, and anyway, our bodies aren't the same most likely and your beta may not work for me so lay off!!!
(sorry, long run-on rant is over....)
|
|
|
|
|
missedyno
Sep 28, 2004, 5:50 PM
Post #18 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2001
Posts: 4465
|
I try to be careful about making assumptions like this. Unless the person says "hey you're a girl and that was actually a tough problem/route" then i try not to read too much into it.
i *can* be hyper sensitive about feminist issues so i try to think before i react. my worst was working a problem at the gym with a bunch of guys and i got lost, couldn't figure out my next hold. i fell off and someone pointed out where i went wrong - i quickly said "oh you told the guys the beta but not the girl" and he just looked at me like "WTF was that??!" and i quickly apologized. how irrational.
i mean, how can i want them to view me as a buddy and then keep pointing out that i'm different from them all the time?
|
|
|
|
|
eyeclimb
Sep 29, 2004, 5:41 AM
Post #19 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 63
|
In reply to: That's one of the many things I love about my boyfriend. He never makes sexist remarks or judgements. I've never heard any man in our "group" make a sexist remark of any kind ever either. It always surprises me when I see new threads on this because in my experience climbing isn't sexist at all. I don't go to gyms though so maybe its that environment. Chris
I totally agree with that; I have never had that problem either. My boyfriend is so sweet in that way, too. He doesn't think that I'm incapable. I think he believes in me more than I do. Any other guy I've climbed with or around hasn't been like that. Climbing isn't really a sport where guys think girls suck and can't do it. It's definitely the opposite, in fact (in my case, at least). There has to be some male climbers like that, but not many.
|
|
|
|
|
nire
Sep 29, 2004, 12:42 PM
Post #20 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 12
|
In reply to: What I find much more annoying is extra beta-spewing (routes or bouldering). There is an assumption while you're trying to work something out that if you're a girl, you need/want beta. I'll ask if I want it- lemme figure it out myself, and anyway, our bodies aren't the same most likely and your beta may not work for me so lay off!!! |
|
|
|
|
mheyman
Sep 29, 2004, 5:29 PM
Post #21 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 607
|
In reply to: Guys at the gym who watch you do a boulder problem or route, then, thinking it's easy b/c you were on it and didn't struggle much, try it and flail off and then say something like 'wow, that's really hard'. Newsflash fellas.....just because a girl is on it doesn't mean it's easy
I don’t Think saying a problem is hard is necessarily sexist at all. I might say the same thin guy. What do you normally say after you fall off something? From what you wrote alone I don’t see ho you know the guy thought is was easy. Yes he might have been embarrassed by falling off, but he probably would have felt similarly if you were another guy watching. I always feel a little self conscious when I first start climbing with people I don’t know watching – then when I have to put some effort into it that self consciousness is forgotten.
|
|
|
|
|
climberterp
Sep 30, 2004, 1:04 AM
Post #22 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 386
|
In reply to: In reply to: Guys at the gym who watch you do a boulder problem or route, then, thinking it's easy b/c you were on it and didn't struggle much, try it and flail off and then say something like 'wow, that's really hard'. Newsflash fellas.....just because a girl is on it doesn't mean it's easy I don’t Think saying a problem is hard is necessarily sexist at all. I might say the same thin guy. What do you normally say after you fall off something? From what you wrote alone I don’t see ho you know the guy thought is was easy. Yes he might have been embarrassed by falling off, but he probably would have felt similarly if you were another guy watching. I always feel a little self conscious when I first start climbing with people I don’t know watching – then when I have to put some effort into it that self consciousness is forgotten.
Well, context is everything, I suppose. Here's the order of things: I'm on the route, work through all the moves smoothly and jump down. Noobish guy happens to be watching me and decides to get on the route immediately after I finish. Noobish guy proceeds to fall off route just as immediately, turns around with a semi-surprised look and tone of voice and utters above comment.
It's happened to me a number of times and I don't think I'm misinterpreting the situation.
Not to say that all guys suck, or all guys who climb assume women can't. I happen to know and climb with a bunch of great guys. It's just that people who don't know me tend to make assumptions.
|
|
|
|
|
mheyman
Sep 30, 2004, 4:50 AM
Post #23 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 607
|
In reply to: Well, context is everything, I suppose. Here's the order of things: I'm on the route, work through all the moves smoothly and jump down. Noobish guy happens to be watching me and decides to get on the route immediately after I finish. Noobish guy proceeds to fall off route just as immediately, turns around with a semi-surprised look and tone of voice and utters above comment.
climberterp: I read your response and I believe that you are saying that a female was climbing the route (you) and when the noob tried it he was surprised that it route was not easy. You think it was because he thought it would be easy because you are female. But look at what you yourself wrote
>The guy is a noob. He can't tell whether the route is difficult or not on his own.
> You climbed it and made it look easy.
>He is genuinely surprised at how difficult it is and says so.
Ok I admit there is there is still room for a little sexism here, but you are not giving yourself enough credit! You "work through all the moves smoothly and jump down". You made it look easy! From here I still have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's a noob. One day he may be able to look at the problem/route and figure out that it is difficult. On that day though your performance was lost on the person. You need an audience who climbs at a higher level than a noob to be able to give you the credit it sounds like you deserved.
Congratulations. Seriously
PS: I call it performance art when I have a difficult route wired and can make it look smooth and easy.
|
|
|
|
|
jay_climbingchick
Sep 30, 2004, 1:30 PM
Post #24 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 64
|
I agree I hate when guys do that. Just because I am a girl. I have also found that some of my closest guy friends like to watch me do a rout to help them through a move.
|
|
|
|
|
angelaa
Sep 30, 2004, 3:34 PM
Post #25 of 40
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2003
Posts: 598
|
***Actually this just happened in Vedauwoo Wyoming on a trad climb that I led for the first time. . nice to see a guy back off of something that I led!!! ***
:twisted: :lol:
Doesn't bug me at all . . . in fact . . . it empowers me!
I love it when I can pull something off that a stranger in the gym or outside saw me do and jumped on after I did becuase he thought it would be easy and then he had to back off . . .
I say stranger above, because most of my guy freinds are too cool to ever think that they could do something just because I can. They know we all have different techniques and the fact that I have very long legs and am very flexible helps too!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
