Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Big Wall and Aid Climbing:
Technical systems to ease hauling for little people
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Big Wall and Aid Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


cybele


Oct 1, 2004, 2:51 AM
Post #1 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 7, 2004
Posts: 20

Technical systems to ease hauling for little people
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I would love to hear from folks using a 3:1 hauling system or other load-easer. If using two pulleys, are you setting the main device (Wallhauler, Pro Traction, pulley and jug) normally, then hooking a secondary device to a lower anchor point and pulling upwards instead of downwards? If so, I have a Mini Traction I can use as the second device. Will this be a big enough pulley wheel? The strength specs are ok: they are very similar to the Pro Traction. I am just not sure what problems might arise or what to expect from rigging a two-pulley system. And are there other methods people are using (besides a two-person haul or a two-stage haul) to ease the hauling on the first day or two of a route? I weigh 115 and used only the Wallhauler while trying to blast on a grade VI last week. Partner had to help the haul. Yikes. :|


moof


Oct 1, 2004, 6:12 AM
Post #2 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Look around for details of PTPP's 2:1 hauling system.

First in line is space hauling to get ALL your weight onto the pulley. Assist this with an ascender pointed the other way on the pig side of the haul to let you yard on the pig. You get a 2:1 for this force. If you get get 30 lbs onto this ascender you get 60 lbs more lift. Hang upside down and friction yourself against the line to get more.

A 3:1 is something we should all know how to rig, for rescue if for nothing else. Depending on the number of spare pulleys you have, you may only get 2:1.

By the way, how much did you pigs weigh?


Partner coylec


Oct 1, 2004, 6:24 PM
Post #3 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 2024

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Look around for details of PTPP's 2:1 hauling system.

This is a signature post from Pete in which he describes Chongo's 2:1 hauling system, called the 2:1 Hauling Ratchet. Make sure you get it before you blast off, eh?

Read all about it here!

I can't speak for Pete, but if I remember right, he's swearing by the Kong Roll-Block these days, instead of the protrax. Big pulley wheel, great strength, but a little heavy. Tag it up!

coylec


lambone


Oct 1, 2004, 6:53 PM
Post #4 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

My one attempt to use the 2:1 system proved to be more tiering then just doing the painfull one to one.

On really heavy hauls at the bottom of a wall I have had better luck just using the standard 3:1 Z-pully meathod. Easier to re-set and more effecient in my opinion, although the bags techniacly move up the wall slower, I found it took overall less time then a 2:1.

Maybe I just need to tweak the 2:1 system more...but don't really feel like buying or carrying extra equipment to set it up perfectly.


rockprodigy


Oct 4, 2004, 5:05 PM
Post #5 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

You might consider bringing less stuff. If you only weigh 115 pounds, then you should need less water, less food, smaller clothes, sleeping bag, etc. Instead of figuring out weighs to bring more gear (for your 3:1 or 2:1 system), why not think about bringing less?


epic_ed


Oct 4, 2004, 5:32 PM
Post #6 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have a Kong Block Roll and assure you it is a far superior device to the Protraxion. But they are very difficult to find in the US. http://www.barrabes.com is about the only place I have found that stocks them consistently -- and they ain't cheap. If you can find one and justify the price, the 1:1 hauling will be much easier.

For situations where a 1:1 won't cut it, I have used the Z-pulley method described by Lambone. I don't have the time right now to draw up specifics, but it is a 3:1 (essentially a 4:1 if you also pull up on the loaded end) that makes hauling a massive load a breeze. It is time consuming since you're doing 3x the work -- but if your 1:1 effort won't move the bags this will keep you moving upward. Switch back to a 1:1 ASAP.

I, too, have tried the PTPP/Chongo 2:1 hauling ratchet and found it to be a PITA. The learning curve to get it dialed just isn't something that I've had time to practice, and unless you really have it dialed, it's a exercise is frustration and wasted effort. There are those on this site who have taken the time to learn how to use it efficiently and most of them swear by it's benefits. To each their own...

Ed


cybele


Oct 4, 2004, 7:06 PM
Post #7 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 7, 2004
Posts: 20

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, thanks for ideas, everyone. I am well familiar with Z-pulley setup from glacier rescue, but wondered about the resetting involved for hauling with it. And, yes, I would love to have a 4 inch pulley that was reasonably light. I will investigate. That might well make enough difference. As for bringing less, well, whatever, not like I'm hauling a boom box up there (hmm, that would be fun though). Or a 24oz beer per night. But some partners have different ideas about what to bring. And I still have to haul it.
A moment to whine , waaah, I just screwed up and bid on the Ushba hauler on ebay, before I read how crappy it is, and how useless for solo hauling. Doggonit!


lambone


Oct 4, 2004, 9:03 PM
Post #8 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ummm....first of all, if you are leaving the tall boys and boom box in the car then you are missing out on the best part of big wall climbing.

second, resetting the 3:1 is easy. Just clip some of the rack on the jumar that pulls upward. that way it should slide right down the rope when you reset for another pull. piece of cake. let it slide down as far as you can. works best to have another pully clipped to this jumar as well to reduce friction.


jimdavis


Oct 10, 2004, 5:16 AM
Post #9 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This may be a way some of you know how to haul, but I think it's really neat so I'll share it cause it sounds like it might be of help to you guys.

1) On your haul anchor, set up your wallhauler off the powerpoint of your anchor, and tie a knot in the end of the haul line and get the haul line taught against the hauler. You want a hauler with a nice big pully

2) Attach yourself to the haul line (on the slack side of the wallhauler) with a GriGri. Have your jug on you so you are prepaired to jug with the 3:1 GriGri/ Jug system. You can find out how do to this from other posts or articles.

3) Have your tie very long, as long as you can get for the most part. This should be on a seperate rope, tied off to your haul anchor, and main anchor if you want to be really rundandant.

4) With your tie in LONG, and your GriGri tight, walk backwards down the face below you. Use sticky rubber shoes for this!
You'll probably need to get your feet above your waist so you almost start to invert. You'll be using your legs to force your body down the cliff, and the bag up it. When you've gone as far as you can; IE hit a ledge, the end of your tie in, the bag is at the anchor; start jugging back up your haul line.

5) Gather up your rope and backup as you jug up, like normal.

6) Repeat until your done.

I learned this from a guy who's done a bunch of walls, and he say he's pulled bags up a little over 200 lbs using this method.

There is very little resetting, all of your energy goes into pulling the bag down (except for jugging back up), and you shouldn't really sweat too much doing it.

Granted your bag has to be heavy enough that you need to force yourself down in the first place, otherwise your going for a ride, but if your building a 3:1 in the first place, I'd think that's not a problem.

Hope this helps out some of you out there,
Jim


ricardol


Oct 11, 2004, 10:59 PM
Post #10 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

knowing how to build a mechanichal advantage pulley should be in every wall climbers bag of tricks ..

i can't tell you how many times i forgot to bring the pulley with me on my last wall, and had to setup the haul line onto the pro traxion AFTER the bags had been cut loose.. -- this would have been very hard without a 2:1 advantage ..

.. i did find that the 2:1 was way too much trouble this last time around .. and forced my self to go 1:1 from the 1st day on the wall..

something happened to my protraxion on the wall though, since now its very hard to open and close -- and i had trouble on one haul getting the haul line to stay ON the pulley .. it kept on trying to fall out .. -- the case of the pro-traxion kept it from escaping though -- thank god for that biner at the bottom.

-- ricardo


Partner holdplease2


Oct 11, 2004, 11:32 PM
Post #11 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jim Davis' description is great. I do have one word of caution when trying to haul large loads with a touch of brut force.

The repeated downward pressure on your kidneys or even upward pressure on your ribs from your harness in these situations can cause you problems.

One way to help spread the forces out on your body is to wear your chest harness and connect both it and your sit harness to the powerpoint of your haul. (thanks to the wallress for telling me this, which seems obvious now) Make sure you feel some of the force on your leg loops, some on your waist belt and some on your shoulders or upper back for maximum effectiveness.

-Kate.


cybele


Oct 27, 2004, 6:16 PM
Post #12 of 12 (2770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 7, 2004
Posts: 20

Re: Technical systems to ease hauling for little people [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Just to follow up...I got a 4" pulley that weighs 1.1 lb from Ver, a supplier to the rigging industry located in Burbank (fun shop for climbers). I used this on my recent solo of West Fact LT, and was AMAZED at how easy the hauling was. I also used a 9mil static line to reduce friction. I could have pulled up another 100 lbs, I figure, if I had to. What a difference! Hauling was hardly even a chore...and I had a lot with me, just in case the sh hit the fan, which it did...I got caught in the storm just as I topped out, had to rappel a maelstrom in the chimney/gully system. Right through waterfalls and hurtling rocks, fully hypothermic, yeesh! Lucky got out without a broken leg or worse. BTW got the bag stuck at the top, on the tug from pitch 10 ledge to the rap anchor, and had to slap an impromptu far end hauler on it. I am convinced that on any solo the bag should be pre-prepped for a far end haul if need be. Anyway, thanks all for the hauling discussions.


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook