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iltripp
Oct 1, 2004, 2:43 AM
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I think Kerry just solidly kicked Bush's a$$ in that debate. He was composed, made good points, and didn't get boring or talk too much.
Bush, on the other hand, kept repeating the same points and seemed quite defensive. Did anyone notice how many times he talked about "sending mixed message"? He really seemed to be grasping at thin air there.
One interesting point: Bush has obviously been getting some serious vocabulary schooling. "Vociferous"?!?!?! He certainly has improved his speaking ability. He almost comes across as intelligent, although I'm sure he was thinking, "Charles de Who??" when Kerry was talking about Kennedy and France in the Cuban Missle Crisis.
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petsfed
Oct 1, 2004, 2:45 AM
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I felt that while Kerry really pushed facts and specifics, Bush seemed more animated. Kerry seemed VERY robotic. Bush is the better speaker, but we elect for more than speaking ability.
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olive
Oct 1, 2004, 2:51 AM
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or so we hope.
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traddad
Oct 1, 2004, 3:03 AM
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I think that Kerry aquitted himself very well in this debate. I also think that his message will play well with the "security (ne:soccer) moms.
I also am surprised at how much I actually enjoyed this"debate". It wasn't as bad as I feared.....but not as good as I hoped. I predict that Kerry will get a significant bump from this debate.....although we'll have to wait until after the spin doctors quit flapping their pie holes.
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bluto
Oct 1, 2004, 3:05 AM
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i'd have to go with a tie on this one. No major gaffes, no knockout punches to be had. Trench warfare continues.
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danooguy
Oct 1, 2004, 3:11 AM
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A tie? A tie at best, perhaps.
Don't forget, that the RNC and Bush have skillfully molded this election into a question of national security, and Bush rather deftly kept clubbing Kerry over the head saying, "You cannot be an effective Commander in Chief if you keep changing your position...denigrating the leader of Iraq... denigrating the mission of the troops...saying thing like "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time." etc, etc.
Kerry looked embarrassed.
It is my opinion that many people are going to be primarily concerned with Kerry's inabilities as Commander in Chief.
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prufrock
Oct 1, 2004, 3:14 AM
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Clear victory for Kerry, but a TKO rather than a KO. Bush was fidgety, defensive, belligerent, and was way too "on message." He sounded like a broken record.
It was funny how in the split screen, they put Bush's podium 20% higher so he wouldn't look 6 inches shorter, like he is.
Bush need a step-stool to debate Kerry. Haha.
It was also an amazingly issues-focused "debate," er, joint press conference.
If they hold Bush to the Gore standard -- Kerry kicked butt.
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jumpingrock
Oct 1, 2004, 3:15 AM
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How many days until the election???
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jono
Oct 1, 2004, 3:40 AM
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kerry said very little but said it better than bush. overall they both made asses out of themselves equally.
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iltripp
Oct 1, 2004, 3:58 AM
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In reply to: A tie? A tie at best, perhaps. Don't forget, that the RNC and Bush have skillfully molded this election into a question of national security, and Bush rather deftly kept clubbing Kerry over the head saying, "You cannot be an effective Commander in Chief if you keep changing your position...denigrating the leader of Iraq... denigrating the mission of the troops...saying thing like "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time." etc, etc. Kerry looked embarrassed. It is my opinion that many people are going to be primarily concerned with Kerry's inabilities as Commander in Chief.
Um... get your head out of the clouds.. Bush did not "deftly club kerry over the head" with the whole "ineffective commander in chief". On the contrary, it looked like he had run out of pre-arranged speeches to make, so he kept repeating that one. It was all he could say, and it made him look downright laughable.
You're right that the RNC and Bush turned this into a debate about National Security, but Kerry held firm and probably won. He just beat Bush on his key issue.
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jimmylegs
Oct 1, 2004, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: Bush was fidgety, defensive, belligerent...
I liked the way Kerry took notes when Bush was speaking - He may only have been doodling but it did look better than Bush's fidgeting.
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moongoddess50
Oct 1, 2004, 4:48 AM
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Thought Kerry did a fine job of speaking/acting/looking "presidential".... while the shrub looked like an uncomfortable kid with itchy underwear....did ya' notice how much he blinked during his 2 minute closing remarks?....probably unable to maintain eye contact due to a guilty conscience.....
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jookyhead
Oct 1, 2004, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: Thought Kerry did a fine job of speaking/acting/looking "presidential".... while the shrub looked like an uncomfortable kid with itchy underwear....did ya' notice how much he blinked during his 2 minute closing remarks?....probably unable to maintain eye contact due to a guilty conscience.....
Yeah, I couldn't stop looking at his eyes. He blinked like four times per second.
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vivalargo
Oct 1, 2004, 4:05 PM
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Posts on this thread convince me that folks see what they wnt to see, not necessarily what is actually out there. I'm not a huge fan of either Kerry or Bush, but Kery did raise one very important point -- about certainty.
Bush basically said that he had a strategy (on Iraq) and he's sticking to it. Kerry suggested that even the best strategy must be a continuous series of course corections--like all the tiny moves we make with the steering wheel while driving on the freeway.
Folks like to hear that one way is the way -- the old all or nothing thinking. The fact that few things work out so simply, that course corrections are the earmarks of a flawed stradegy, suggesting a wavering or flip flopping of core values, is really simplistic in my mind.
You posit a goal; you set a course; you adjust as the road takes unforseen twists and turns; you are, in fact, flexible.
IMO, Kerry wins the debate simply for stating this crucial point. Iraq is not the implimentation of a fixed protocol, rather a complex process requiring daily readjustments revisions of opinion. Caliming such revisions are character flaws is to posit yourself as all-knowing, is basically playing God, and us humans are really bad at that job.
JL
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treesail
Oct 1, 2004, 4:12 PM
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Halliburton for President!
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the_pirate
Oct 1, 2004, 4:18 PM
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The High Points of the Debate
Bush:
"I talk to world leaders,"
"all the time,"
"on the phone."
Kerry:
"I've been watching your daughters."
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prufrock
Oct 1, 2004, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: Posts on this thread convince me that folks see what they wnt to see, not necessarily what is actually out there.
This is undoubtably true, to a large degree. But the amazing thing about last night's debate is how many conservative columnists I have now read that unequivocally called Kerry the winner. Folks at the Weekly Standard and The National Review. These people are very much in the Republican camp, and they called Bush the loser. For a break down, follow the link, but 89% of Democrats polled said Kerry won, while only 69% of Republicans thought Bush won (48% indep. said Kerry, 28% Bush).
http://abcnews.go.com/...ate_poll_040930.html
That's bad news for Bush. (Certainly not fatal news, but bad).
And his dogged persistence in not admitting that anything is wrong in Iraq could kill him. The sh@tstorm in Iraq is getting so big that everybody is starting to notice -- he is not going to be able to play that game much longer. A course correction is certainly warranted, and if Bush won't even admit that, he might just find the voters electing somebody that will.
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