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prest_one
Oct 9, 2004, 7:51 PM
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Im new to the site and actually to posting in this forum, so forgive me if i repeat a question that a lot of you have already probably heard or read on here. Now i also know that there is a lot of mixed feelings and some people cant really understand the reasoning but i would like to know how many of you out there have ever free soloed? Ive done it once and it was on a 5.9 double pitch (yeah i know easy) on the Sespe Wall in Ojai, California the feeling i got from it was amazing, i felt so alive, it magnified the whole climbing experience by a thousand. Let me know your thoughts.
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climber49er
Oct 9, 2004, 8:21 PM
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You may believe 5.9 is easy, but it can surely kill you if you make even a small mistake in the wrong spot. The feeling of being so "alive" comes with it the risk of being so "dead". Ask yourself if you are comfortable having everyone that loves you sitting around dressed in black wondering why you died so foolishly.
Free soloing is inherantly a very selfish act. Drug addicts have a very similar rational for what they do. They get a great high so who cares how dangerous it is or how the family will feel when they O.D.
The Free Soloer who falls to his death is really no different than the Druggie who dies of an "accidental" overdose.
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dutyje
Oct 9, 2004, 8:21 PM
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Never done it. S5 for self-deprecation, but too blatant.
I hear this "made me feel so alive" bit on here all the time. If it made you feel so alive, why didn't you ever do it again? Will you ever do it again?
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noshoesnoshirt
Oct 9, 2004, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: .... Free soloing is inherantly a very selfish act.
So is drinking, smoking, eating fatty foods, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
At least this inherantly very selfish act has a decent view.
Live a little man, you're gonna die eventually no matter what.
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korntera
Oct 9, 2004, 8:37 PM
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I would say S4 very blatent and then saying the 5.9 is easy. I am bad with terminology so let me try get my thought out. I have solo climbed no belayer but i had an ascender and a few nice knots on a top rope holding me up. That is my idea of soloing, however at the same place the next day(only 45 feet tall) a guy climbed up a 5.8 crack about three times in a row, no ropes or anything. Maybe he felt free but how did i feel while on belay next to where he was climbing? I didn't want to be there, what if he fell, i don't want to see another human die, I did not want to see his head split open if he hit the rock. Not only that but how would his family feel, it is a stupid and SELFISH ACT!!! If you have nobody that cares for you do it, but make sure people like me arnt' watching because i will not take your dumb ass to the hospital or call the morgue, i will leave.
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jjuddmusic
Oct 9, 2004, 8:49 PM
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I free-soloed a 5.9 once near Sacramento, but that was before I was married and had a family that depended on me. I agree it is exhilarating and terrifying at the same time, but I also agree it's a selfish motivation. The risk of loss is just far too great. Life perspectives really change when you get married and have kids.
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numbnut
Oct 9, 2004, 9:02 PM
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Free soloing is great. I just don't do it anywhere near my limit.
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feanor007
Oct 9, 2004, 9:04 PM
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all this talk is about how free soloing makes you feel. the only thing my parents told me whn i started climbing was be carful, because your carrying more than just your dreams and your future.
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dutyje
Oct 9, 2004, 9:15 PM
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Anybody who talks about free soloing around here gets bashed for being selfish. I don't know if I feel quite the same way. I've had plenty of people call me crazy for doing what I do. I top rope and sport climb.. no trad, and 80% of my time is spent in the gym. How sterile can it get?
People think I'm being wild and dangerous. I don't see it that way at all. And certainly, within the context of the climbing community, I'm seen by many as not even a true "climber", or at least as one who doesn't climb hard.
Most in the climbing community see free soloing as crazy and dangerous. This is not unlike the way non-climbers view climbers. I guess it just comes down to your own thresholds for risk. I know I'll never free solo. It is a risk well beyond anything I could comprehend accepting. But I'm not going to berate somebody else for free soloing. I'll just get on them for spraying about it.
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georgenuckols
Oct 9, 2004, 9:25 PM
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Selfish everyone seems to agree!? Get over it the whole sport of rock climbing is sefish it not like there is some greater good that comes from cliping bolts, there is no starving child at the top to be rescued. When we climb we overcome fear, doubt, ect... and through climbing we gain self confidence expand our perspective, and punish our body. If you realy like to free solo try bouldering. There is a time and a place for all things if you are fond of free solo climbing contact me I know a great # of deep watter solo climbs.
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tikka_masala
Oct 9, 2004, 9:35 PM
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I wonder if any free solo'er who has fallen to their death was saying to themselves on the way down, "Man that was soooo worth it!"
I would hate to be the person who has to tell a family member, "Sorry but your son/daughter/father/mother died climbing a 5.6, but dont worry, they died doing what they loved!
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climberpunk
Oct 9, 2004, 9:41 PM
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if you have to ask if its a good idea, it isn't. However, in defense of competent free soloists, once you have a complete [almost, i cede that complete mastery is impossible] mastery of your climbing, and understand INTIMATELY your exact limitations and abilities, you can make climbing without a rope exceedingly safe- when you also take precautions [number of points of contact, knowing the security of local rock, etc].
while I approve of people making the very personal decision to climb without a rope when they consider themselves entirely able, If you have ANY DOUBTS OR QUESTIONS AT ALL- I REPEAT- ANY DOUBTS, DO NOT FREE SOLO- YOU ARE NOT READY. It can offer an intensely personal and powerful experience, but can only be done safely with an intimate knowledge of yourself, your abilities, and your limitations- as well as the specific challanges of the rock.
We all run an increased, but understood, risk of death whenever we rope up. Plenty of people have to tell parents, husbands, wives, children, and friends that a loved one died climbing. Its not pretty, but its a reality. And we all take risks that make that more or less likely to come to pass- its a matter of risk management.
Why do we use ropes? Because we might fall. When we dont think we'll fall, we dont use them. Eg. I know i wont fall on an expose staircase, or ladder to my roof, or the approach gully at the crag. And as such, i dont rope up. Conversely, when there is a good possibility of falling, I take precaution. I take a longer but less steep access route if its muddy or wet outside. I rope up on any remotely technical climb, because I think i might make a mistake and fall. I might not be paying attention, or get distracted. If you know EXACTLY what you can and can't climb, and know a route, then whos to say you cant make that decision to free solo.
As far as not wanting to see a free soloist fall and die, consider also that normal folx don't want to see US fall and die when we climb near them. To those who dont understand it, any form of climbing is exceedingly dangerous- and it is, though not as much so as people tend to think.
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androids
Oct 9, 2004, 11:03 PM
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sure ive free soloed a couple climbs, "stupid " yes , selfish no. most will accuse instead of understand what im about to say, it takes a certain state of mind to be in control of your fear(or lack there of) most dismiss free soloing as selfish beacuse they see it as thrill seeking. so maybe i do seek the thrill of being "free" . being free of myself and what everyone else is expecting of me, the only expectation i have of myself is to live. and if i make it past one more test i put forth for myself i will know i have succeeded because im still alive and un-injured. i addmit it can seem a little strange but if i could bring you along to experience the calming-fear you feel you would understand. not feeling alive but.. knowing life. how do you know there's a fate if you dont test it?
that said. dont free on limestone, i took a 12m fall onto slab after i climbed up something i couldnt down climb, then forced to climb a overhang (in boots) the big hand hold i had my right on cracked like gunshot, i fell being saved by the rope on my back(F**K) that i bought for the reppel, but couldnt find a decent anchor ,spent a day in the emerg, no injuries exept a bruise down half my right side, and a serious case of scree/slab rash.
what is selfish if you dont know the limits of ones self?
how do you know where you end? and others begin?
are u doing things because you want to? or because others want you to?
personally i know im crazy, but how did you come to think youre sain?
and my family at my funeral( if they can find my body) would say "at least he died doing what he loves". what about yours? are you willing to die happy? and afraid? those who resist death are most afraid, only one that is truly happy can welcome death with open arms.
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androids
Oct 9, 2004, 11:10 PM
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I would hate to be the person who has to tell a family member, "Sorry but your son/daughter/father/mother died climbing a 5.6, but dont worry, they died doing what they loved!
actually grade has nothing to do with it! dying climbing 5.6 is better that dying on the way there! you seem superficial and silly.
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androids
Oct 9, 2004, 11:11 PM
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I would hate to be the person who has to tell a family member, "Sorry but your son/daughter/father/mother died climbing a 5.6, but dont worry, they died doing what they loved!
actually grade has nothing to do with it! dying climbing 5.6 is better that dying on the way there! you seem superficial and silly.
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andy_reagan
Oct 9, 2004, 11:22 PM
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free solo means exactly that. Solo. If you have to discuss and/or justify it with a group of people (online or otherwise) then you probably should re-examine your situation.
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fallenfreesoloist
Oct 9, 2004, 11:24 PM
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as with most things there is a better middle ground for this subject. theres a time and place for everything. maybe theres never been and never will be one for you but u gotta give free soloists props for getting high in a pure manner. the point of view of it being a selfish act is well founded too. find a middle ground.
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gunkiemike
Oct 9, 2004, 11:26 PM
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In reply to: ...Ive done it once and it was on a 5.9 double pitch (yeah i know easy) ... Let me know your thoughts.
My thoughts? I'm thinking you're so proud of what you did that you need to boast about it on the internet.
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climber49er
Oct 10, 2004, 12:11 AM
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In reply to: My thoughts? I'm thinking you're so proud of what you did that you need to boast about it on the internet.
Ummmm, Bingo!
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dutyje
Oct 10, 2004, 1:35 AM
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In reply to: Of course, far greater numbers of free soloists who fall die compared to roped climbers, but... Greater numbers of climbers die roped up than free soloing, and greater percentages of roped climbers die than free soloists. So, which is more dangerous?
A greater percentage of roped climbers die when compared to free soloists? I find that very hard to believe, if you look at individual ascents. I would guess that a larger percentage of free solo ascent attempts end in death than roped ascent attempts. Of course, I don't know this as a fact. It's really not possible to assemble the numbers. But really, per attempted ascent, I would bet your roped climbers see a higher survival rate.
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live2climb
Oct 10, 2004, 1:48 AM
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Man why dose everybody have to be so rude????? We all climb because we have a passion for it and if one of your passions is free soloing whell great for you keep up the good work and do what you love, if you spot climb awsome climb on but dont critisize others for what they do its their desicion and to die climbing would be the best way yo die in my eyes much better that a car crash or somthing stupid like that. So climb on and have fun and lets all try to be nice :twisted:
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dutyje
Oct 10, 2004, 3:15 AM
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pmyche -
I'm not disputing those facts at all. ANAM is an easy source to quote, and an excellent source of factual data. But I would bet that the number of free solo ascent attempts / year is a very small percentage of the total ascent attempts / year. I have seen many free soloers on this site quoting statistics on number of deaths per year and claiming that free soloers are safer in what they do than the average roped climber.
More people die in car accidents every year than are killed licking electrical outlets. That doesn't mean that licking electrical outlets is a safer activity than driving a car.
If someone wants to free solo, that's fine by me. I find the activity as foreign as non-climbers find my wimpy top-roping. That doesn't mean I think that free soloers have signed up for certain death, or that they're being stupid. We all have our limits. I don't think you'll find many free soloers out there who aren't well aware of the risk. They have calculated this risk and made a choice.
If the point was to minimize out risk of coming to an abrupt death, we'd all be sitting on our couches, sipping beer, and posting stupid messages on the internet instead of being out climbing and pushing our own personal limits. Wait.....
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saskclimber
Oct 10, 2004, 4:31 AM
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In reply to: Live a little man, you're gonna die eventually no matter what. |
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 10, 2004, 5:08 AM
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In reply to: A greater percentage of roped climbers die when compared to free soloists? I find that very hard to believe, if you look at individual ascents. I would guess that a larger percentage of free solo ascent attempts end in death than roped ascent attempts.
If this was the case there would be a lot more dead free soloists.
If you took a hundred climber at random with the only qualification being that they free solo.
Then you took another random group with the only qualification being that they say that they do not ever free solo.
Which group would have a death first? In my experience, it would not even be close.
Another point.
You people that think there is some sharp dividing line between climbing with and without a rope. There isn't. In the course of many roped climbs, there are moments when the rope is not going to do any good. Typically, those sections are the easy part. If you can safely climb that section dragging a rope then you can also safely climb that section with out a rope.
Do you think the illusion of the protection of the rope is a useful tactic. I see people use it all the time. I hear them say "I would never solo something," right after they did.
Some of you are going to say that you do not get on routes like that. Sorry, but even well bolted sport climbs have sections like that, it is unavoidable outside of the gym and top roping.
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prest_one
Oct 10, 2004, 2:39 PM
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Some of you get really hurt by just mentioning the word free soloing, god im sorry. A lot of you also told me that if i have to justify what im doing then maybe i shouldnt be doing it, well if you look back at my initial post i never once was trying to justify what i do nor was i trying to get others opinions as to whether i should or shouldnt free Solo. I simply asked for peoples thoughts as to whether or not they have done it and and what they thought about it. As for free soloing when im at the crag, and i feel like free soloing ill do it if i feel like throwing up a rope then ill throw up a rope. Its really funny to talk about this topic its just like politics, everybody thinks they have the answer, and that they are the only ones that are right. Bottom line if you feel like free soloing then do it if you dont then dont.
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