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treesail
Oct 25, 2004, 4:43 PM
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"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is [also] unable to project conventional power against his neighbors." --U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, 24 February 2001
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overlord
Oct 25, 2004, 4:47 PM
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isnt it called flip-flop or something????
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bluto
Oct 25, 2004, 4:58 PM
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In reply to: KERRY: "He is and has acted like a terrorist, and he has engaged in activities that are unacceptable." (Fox News’ "The O’Reilly Factor," 12/11/01
In reply to: KERRY: " think we ought to put the heat on Saddam Hussein. I’ve said that for a number of years, Bill. I criticized the Clinton administration for backing off of the inspections, when Ambassador Butler was giving us strong evidence that we needed to continue. I think we need to put the pressure on, no matter what the evidence is about September 11 ..." (Fox News’ "The O’Reilly Factor," 12/11/01)
In reply to: "I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq ..." - John Kerry, 7/29/02 Remarks at the 2002 DLC National Conversation, NY (Senator John Kerry, Speech To The 2002 DLC National Conversation, New York, NY, 7/29/02)
In reply to: "... Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in place by the United Nations in 1991." - John Kerry, 7/29/02 Remarks at the 2002 DLC National Conversation, NY (Senator John Kerry, Speech To The 2002 DLC National Conversation, New York, NY, 7/29/02)
In reply to: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement ..." - Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed The New York Times 9/6/02 (Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed, "We Still Have A Choice On Iraq," The New York Times, 9/6/02)
In reply to: "...even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." - Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed The New York Times 9/6/02 (Sen. John Kerry, Op-Ed, "We Still Have A Choice On Iraq," The New York Times, 9/6/02)
In reply to: "I would disagree with John McCain that it’s the actual weapons of mass destruction he may use against us, it’s what he may do in another invasion of Kuwait or in a miscalculation about the Kurds or a miscalculation about Iran or particularly Israel. Those are the things that - that I think present the greatest danger. He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat." (CBS’ "Face The Nation," 9/15/02)
I guess Colin was right and Kerry was wrong. :wink:
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tgreene
Oct 25, 2004, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is [also] unable to project conventional power against his neighbors." --U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, 24 February 2001 |
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unabonger
Oct 25, 2004, 5:23 PM
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I guess if this thread is going to go back and forth betwen Cons and Libs quoting a bunch of career political opportunists' hypocritical misstatements, we should be up to 100 pages by dinner time EST.
UB
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tgreene
Oct 25, 2004, 5:29 PM
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137 pages, if we could somehow connect Tori Allen to part of this conspiracy! :mrgreen:
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prufrock
Oct 25, 2004, 5:40 PM
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In reply to: That statement was proved to be incorrect, on live television, when Iraq launched 3 medium-range missels that were on the UN's banned list, that hit Kuwait City, early on during the war!
Whew, I'm glad we went to war then! Kuwait completely collapsed under the weight of the withering missile attack. :roll:
(And if I remember right, they were not on the UN's banned list -- they were modifications of OK missiles that had a range slightly longer than allowed under UN dictate.)
And the Kerry statements: not flip-flops.
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tgreene
Oct 25, 2004, 5:50 PM
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Ummm, modified and longer range than allowed, made them illegal for Iraq to posess! :roll:
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prufrock
Oct 25, 2004, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: Ummm, modified and longer range than allowed, made them illegal for Iraq to posess! :roll:
Really? Gee, thanks. No shit.
The point is that there was an argument to be made that they were not a strict violation. I think the UN ruled on the matter and came to the conclusion that they were, but I could be wrong. Either way, they were a technical violation, but a pointless one -- they gave Saddam negligible tactical advantage and zero strategic advantage.
They were not worth fighting a war over -- and they are damn near all we have, from a legal standpoint.
I'm glad we waged war to make the world safe from a missile with 10% more range than it should have had!
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prufrock
Oct 25, 2004, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: Yep, except that we also unearthed this little feller, and over 70 more like it, scattered around Iraq. I wonder what else they could have buried under 25-30 feet of sand..? :wink: Those Mig25 Foxbat's are nasty little f---!
If it dared to fly (which would have been hard buried under the sand), it would have been shot down if it strayed into the no-fly zone, pre-war, and anywhere, post war; in a matter of minutes it would have been eliminated. And it was not a banned weapon. (And the WMD are not buried under the sand: they don't exist any more. All evidence indicates that fact).
The point here is simple -- Powell was correct in 2002. Saddam was a threat to no one. The only way one can justify to themselves today that Saddam was a threat is to live in fantasy-land. It is actually something America needs to come to grips with -- we were completely, 100% wrong to pretend that Saddam posed a threat to even his closest neighbors, let alone us. We were criminally wrong to wage a war of choice to eliminate a "threat" that tenuous.
It's time we owned up to that fact.
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j_ung
Oct 25, 2004, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: And the WMD are not buried under the sand: they don't exist any more. All evidence indicates that fact. Like the old Sarin canisters that were used in the roadside bombs, that didn't exist..? :? If you can bury an entire fleet of MiG's that measure 20 x40 x70 under the sand, who's to say that there aren't a few cargo containers buried somewhere..? The very FACT that the planes were buried, also proves that other weapons COULD have been buried as well... :idea:
Oh God, I don't want to get into this...
Tim, the roadside Sarin bomb (along with the mustard shell that was found the same day) were acceptaed as anomolies. The people who deployed the Sarin shell didn't even know what they had. They thought it was conventional. It was antique.
OK, I'm out now. Please do not respond. Or do. Whatever. I won't see it. Bye.
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madriver
Oct 25, 2004, 7:16 PM
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...I hate it when political types say something and it gets used against them later....
B. O'Rielly
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unabonger
Oct 25, 2004, 7:28 PM
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In reply to: ...I hate it when political types say something and it gets used against them later.... B. O'Rielly
Me too!
Bill Bennet
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madriver
Oct 25, 2004, 7:31 PM
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...heh..
...my party is much better at demagogery and misinformation than yours...
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iltripp
Oct 26, 2004, 12:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: * Note the Atropine that was accidently left be fleeing Iraqi soldiers. (for anyone who doesn't know, atropine is a drug which is injected to protect against the effects of nerve agents). Last time I checked, gas masks and atropine are usually used by people who are being attacked with nerve agents, not people who are attacking with them. Our troops carry gas masks and injectors too, don't they Tim?
INVADE THEM ALL!!!! FECKING TERRORISTS!!
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treesail
Oct 26, 2004, 12:08 PM
Post #20 of 24
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: * Note the Atropine that was accidently left be fleeing Iraqi soldiers. (for anyone who doesn't know, atropine is a drug which is injected to protect against the effects of nerve agents). Last time I checked, gas masks and atropine are usually used by people who are being attacked with nerve agents, not people who are attacking with them. Our troops carry gas masks and injectors too, don't they Tim? INVADE THEM ALL!!!! FECKING TERRORISTS!!
You first, tough guy.
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iltripp
Oct 26, 2004, 12:10 PM
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In reply to: Blah Blah blah blah
Bluto,
Are you incapable of seeing the difference between
1) stating that Saddam is a possible terrorist threat and a brutal dictator that should be removed.
2) invading Iraq in the way that Bush did.
Let me put it in bold print: IT'S NOT A FLIP FLOP
By the way, Clinton thought that Saddam should be removed, but he didn't piss of 3/4 of the world and immerse our military in a quagmire of terrorist activity by doing it
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iltripp
Oct 26, 2004, 12:12 PM
Post #22 of 24
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Registered: Oct 6, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: * Note the Atropine that was accidently left be fleeing Iraqi soldiers. (for anyone who doesn't know, atropine is a drug which is injected to protect against the effects of nerve agents). Last time I checked, gas masks and atropine are usually used by people who are being attacked with nerve agents, not people who are attacking with them. Our troops carry gas masks and injectors too, don't they Tim? INVADE THEM ALL!!!! FECKING TERRORISTS!! You first, tough guy.
Hey treesail... it was a joke, buddy. When I said, "invade them all", 'them' was referring to our troops, something which I obviously don't condone.
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tgreene
Oct 26, 2004, 12:52 PM
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In reply to: By the way, Clinton thought that Saddam should be removed, but he didn't piss of 3/4 of the world and immerse our military in a quagmire of terrorist activity by doing it |
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