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bensnyder
Oct 30, 2004, 12:05 AM
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I was thinking yesterday about adding something like heavy finger rolls into my training regimen, but to me it just doesnt seem that finger rolls are that sport specific (in climbing, the forearm muscles contract staticly, not dynamicly). Instead, i tried hanging from a 1/2 inch doorjam and pulling myself up only by curling my fingers. Instead of doing these like pull ups, however, i figured it would be best to do them sort of like frenchies:
Hang on open grip for 3-5 seconds
Go to half crimp grip and hold for 3-5 seconds
Go to full crimp grip and hold for 3-5 seconds and then lower slowly back to open grip
Repeat (x) times...
First of all - do you think this routine has any merit?
Second - if it does, do you have any suggestions for making this routine better?
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overlord
Oct 30, 2004, 12:40 PM
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man, id be really carefull with an excercise like that. you can easily blow a tendon.
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icarus_burned
Oct 31, 2004, 9:34 PM
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wouldnt that be the same as stopping at intermittant points on a heavy finger roll?
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bensnyder
Oct 31, 2004, 9:47 PM
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In reply to: wouldnt that be the same as stopping at intermittant points on a heavy finger roll?
Nope, dont think so...It is my understanding that you only use an open grip and curl your fingers with heavy finger rolls, but i could be wrong. I cant really imagine crimping something like a weight bar...
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icarus_burned
Oct 31, 2004, 9:52 PM
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then my understanding of a crimp versus open handed grip and the transition between the two would be more tendon specific training? (from a quick desk top test i just done i feel my fingers hurt more than the muscles contracting them when doing the door jam thing. what i meant by stopping during finger rolls was that you would get both a dynamic and a static component to the exercise rather than all dynamic as you stated.
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bensnyder
Nov 1, 2004, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: then my understanding of a crimp versus open handed grip and the transition between the two would be more tendon specific training?
bingo...
In reply to: what i meant by stopping during finger rolls was that you would get both a dynamic and a static component to the exercise rather than all dynamic as you stated.
yeah i got what you meant and i think if you were just training open grip contact stregnth this would be a nice idea...ill have to try it some time - maybe on off days - because it sounds a bit more tendon friendly than my exercise and it complements the doorjam finger exercise i made up (one focuses a bit more on tendons, the other focuses a bit more on muscle)...
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andy_reagan
Nov 1, 2004, 7:43 PM
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You started climbing this summer and already think that finger strength is your limiting factor?
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fluxus
Nov 2, 2004, 1:33 AM
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In reply to: Hang on open grip for 3-5 seconds Go to half crimp grip and hold for 3-5 seconds Go to full crimp grip and hold for 3-5 seconds and then lower slowly back to open grip Repeat (x) times... First of all - do you think this routine has any merit?
This routine has no merit, unless you like courting injury.
second of all you have almost no climbing experience and you are already straying into the murky waters of supplemental (read bogus) training.
At your stage of development your focus needs to be on getting as much climbing experience as possible. Put your energy into maximizing your actual climbing time and maximizing the different types of climbing you do.
Stay away from supplemental training, 99.99% of the supplemental advice you will get here is pure bunk and 100% of the supplemental training you come up with on your own will be dangerous and distract you from more important things.
the best thing you can do is climb as often as possible and climb at a level at which you are comfortable and allows you to get lots of mileage in each day.
peace out.
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bensnyder
Nov 2, 2004, 2:13 AM
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I may have not been climbing for a long time, but I'm not as much as a newbie as you take me for, and right now finger stregnth (and to a limited extent footwork) is my limiting factor. If I could wreck dishes and slopers like I wanted to, I'd have already sent my most difficult project. Although this exercise is stressful on the tendons, to some degree that is the point; people who havn't climbed a long time like me have restrictions in stregnth because of untrained golgi tendon organs (citing 'training for climbing' here), which are responsable for weakening muscle contractions when the body feels too much stress is being put on a tendon insertion. By putting reasonable and controlled stresses on the tendons, the golgi tendon organs can be trained so that they do not adversely affect muscle tension when stressed.
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fluxus
Nov 2, 2004, 5:49 AM
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In reply to: I may have not been climbing for a long time, but I'm not as much as a newbie as you take me for, and right now finger stregnth (and to a limited extent footwork) is my limiting factor. If I could wreck dishes and slopers like I wanted to, I'd have already sent my most difficult project. Although this exercise is stressful on the tendons, to some degree that is the point; people who havn't climbed a long time like me have restrictions in stregnth because of untrained golgi tendon organs (citing 'training for climbing' here), which are responsable for weakening muscle contractions when the body feels too much stress is being put on a tendon insertion. By putting reasonable and controlled stresses on the tendons, the golgi tendon organs can be trained so that they do not adversely affect muscle tension when stressed.
It actually does not matter how much of a newbie you are or aren't. The fact of the matter is that climbers at all levels of difficulty often cite finger strength as a weakness and they are wrong most of the time. Yes, finger strength almost always feels like a limiting factor but it never really is. Even if you climb 4 -5 days per week its more likely that there are many other vairables in your climbing that are limiting your performance. With as little experience as you have, your balance, your intermuscular coordination, your timing, your movement initiation, your information processing etc., are holding you back to a much greater extent than your forearm muscles ever will.
How can I say this? Because even if you are naturally gifted your brain and body have not yet had enough time to practice the complex skills involved in climbing to get your movement to a reasonable level. If you stop worrying about how strong you are and start worrying about how well you climb, you will get better faster.
And for goodness sake! Anyone who quotes Horst on the Golgi tendon organs (proprioceptive sense organs located at the junction of muscles and tendons that signal information about force in the muscle) is in BIG trouble. If learning about that sort of thing interests you, throw away your copy of "training for flailing" and replace it with some books on physiology, motor learning, and kinesiology from Human Kenitics
www.humankinetics.com
peace
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icarus_burned
Nov 2, 2004, 6:05 PM
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whats that saying about "if you cant something someone with something then baffle them with science?" i forget most of it, but its true. i would have to agree with fluxus on this one i must say BTW
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bensnyder
Nov 3, 2004, 5:44 PM
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Alright guys point taken lol - thanks for the advice...
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rockprodigy
Nov 5, 2004, 5:04 PM
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fluxus rules!
I would add that the stuff I have read indicates that the fingers (which is really to say the forearms) should only be trained isometrically.
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