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sketchypro
Nov 8, 2004, 12:26 AM
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Hi y'all,
coming out to Zion on thanksgiving.
Was wondering if spaceshot would be a good route to rope solo.
Any specific gear I need?
Thanks,
Ed
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grayhghost
Nov 8, 2004, 12:29 AM
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Check out Prodigal Son instead.
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flamer
Nov 8, 2004, 4:53 PM
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In reply to: Check out Prodigal Son instead.
Huh??
Don't listen to this guy, he's trying to sandbag you into a route that's in the shade all day.
Spaceshot would be perfect, depending on the weather!! If the suns out you should be good!
No special gear, it can be done with doubles and some back cleaning, if you want lot's'o' gear bring triple's.
Hybrid Aliens solve any tricky placements. Enjoy!
josh
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rockprodigy
Nov 8, 2004, 5:37 PM
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My only concern with spaceshot is that the first 3 approach pitches will be a bitch to solo because they are 5.9 munge free climbing. Moonlight is a really easy solo with easier aid and is sunny most of the day. Touchstone is also sunny and would be a good solo. Spaceshot gets afternoon sun, I think when it's cold, I would prefer morning sun.
Please don't use camhooks in Zion!
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grayhghost
Nov 8, 2004, 5:55 PM
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I 'aint sandbaggin' nobody.
The first pitches of Spaceshot
are 5.9 chimneys and offwidths,
with no bolt anchors.
Prodigal has tons of bolts which
make for safe solo-anchors and
speedy ascents.
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epic_ed
Nov 8, 2004, 6:40 PM
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Was just up to the park this weekend and it was damn chilly where we were yesterday. Anything on Angel's Landing will be mighty cold this time of year, but it's your choice about what you can tolerate. I wouldn't do it. I haven't done Spaceshot, but it's one that I have ruled out soloing because of the first three pitches. Moonlight isn't a bad option. Personally, I've sworn off EVER soloing that first pitch again, but if you can get past that first pitch -- and then deal with the traversing crap on P2 & P3 -- the rest of the route is a nice solo (or so I've heard -- I've seen the top of P4 twice :roll: ).
If you're comfortable soloing out of your aiders, then Spaceshot, Moonlight, or Touchstone would be good options. Each of those routes has it's share of mandatory free, so pick yer poison.
Ed
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ammon
Nov 8, 2004, 7:27 PM
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Space Shot is a perfect solo. I didn't think the first three were that bad, (except for the hauling) you can easily aid the awkward parts.
Just be careful if you climb the first three the way I did.
Cheers, Ammon
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holdplease2
Nov 8, 2004, 7:35 PM
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Prodigal Sun, for sure.
All Aid climbing...no free climbing rope-soloing.
Alternate belays on P 1,4,5, and 6 (or something like that) mean that you can keep climbing/cleaning/rapping/etc even if other parties have clustered the belays.
Nice walk-off for when you top out in the dark...unlike the hard to find ad dicy-if-icy raps of space shot.
The massive bolted expanses mean you move nice and fast in the second half, and some of the first half.
Take tricams. NOT cam hooks.
Moonlight is nice, but will go slower than Prodigal, in part due to the long chimney/dihedral pitch, in part because it lacks heavilly bolted expanses. Soloing the first pitch with a rope and free climbing is tough...gear is lacking, including gear for the solo anchor. Ugh.d
For those worried about the temps, he/she will be warmer soloing because you never stop to belay.
I have not climbed Space Shot, but the free climbing seems like a pain for a soloist.
I have not climbed touchstone, but I can't imagine that the typical holiday crowds would take too kindly to anyone rope-solo aiding the 5.9/5.10 second half of the climb. Freeing it rope solo would be another story, I'm sure. Something to consider.
-Kate.
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flamer
Nov 8, 2004, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: I 'aint sandbaggin' nobody. The first pitches of Spaceshot are 5.9 chimneys and offwidths, with no bolt anchors. Prodigal has tons of bolts which make for safe solo-anchors and speedy ascents.
I think you all mean the first 2 pitch's of spaceshot.
#1 The do have bolted anchors.
#2 The free climbing isn't that bad, and could be easily aided.
#3 the second pitch can be "climbed around" at 5.5- which is easily free soloed and makes things crazy fast.
#4 you can link alot of pitch's.
#5 Some of you have never done this route or others that you recommended....do you really know what you're talking about?
josh
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jcinco
Nov 8, 2004, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: My only concern with spaceshot is that the first 3 approach pitches will be a b---- to solo because they are 5.9 munge free climbing.
In reply to: The first pitches of Spaceshot are 5.9 chimneys and offwidths, with no bolt anchors.
Wrong information.
The first three pitches go 5.easy, 5.7, 5.5. 2nd pitch is chimneyish, 3rd pitch is more of a gulley. There are bolted anchors at the top of pitch 2 (2 drilled pins when I did it that could be backed up with a large cam.... one fixed rope gets to the ground) and at the top of pitch 3. It would be tough to do solo in a day in late-November, so you'll probably need to haul. Hauling on the first three pitches will suck, but c'est la vie. The descent will suck too, at least compared to Angels Landing, and will probably take half the day solo with pig. But this is Zion, remember.... the descents usually suck!
I can't think of a better "easy" wall to solo in Zion at that time of year (except maybe Moonlight, which I have not been on).
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jcinco
Nov 8, 2004, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: My only concern with spaceshot is that the first 3 approach pitches will be a b---- to solo because they are 5.9 munge free climbing.
In reply to: The first pitches of Spaceshot are 5.9 chimneys and offwidths, with no bolt anchors.
Wrong information.
The first three pitches go 5.easy, 5.7, 5.5. 2nd pitch is chimneyish, 3rd pitch is more of a gulley. There are bolted anchors at the top of pitch 2 (2 drilled pins when I did it that could be backed up with a large cam.... one fixed rope gets to the ground) and at the top of pitch 3. It would be tough to do solo in a day in late-November, so you'll probably need to haul. Hauling on the first three pitches will suck, but c'est la vie. The descent will suck too, at least compared to Angels Landing, and will probably take half the day solo with pig. But this is Zion, remember.... the descents usually suck!
I can't think of a better "easy" wall to solo in Zion at that time of year (except maybe Moonlight, which I have not been on).
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jcinco
Nov 8, 2004, 9:01 PM
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In reply to: My only concern with spaceshot is that the first 3 approach pitches will be a b---- to solo because they are 5.9 munge free climbing.
In reply to: The first pitches of Spaceshot are 5.9 chimneys and offwidths, with no bolt anchors.
Wrong information.
The first three pitches go 5.easy, 5.7, 5.5. 2nd pitch is chimneyish, 3rd pitch is more of a gulley. There are bolted anchors at the top of pitch 2 (2 drilled pins when I did it that could be backed up with a large cam.... one fixed rope gets to the ground) and at the top of pitch 3. It would be tough to do solo in a day in late-November, so you'll probably need to haul. Hauling on the first three pitches will suck, but c'est la vie. The descent will suck too, at least compared to Angels Landing, and will probably take half the day solo with pig. But this is Zion, remember.... the descents usually suck!
I can't think of a better "easy" wall to solo in Zion at that time of year (except maybe Moonlight, which I have not been on).
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epic_ed
Nov 8, 2004, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: I think you all mean the first 2 pitch's of spaceshot.
All topos I've seen show the first three as free.
http://www.bigwall.com/spsttopo.html
You guys might actually talk me into it. Definitely not using the gri gri as my belay device on those first three pitches, though. I also understand that it's nice to have several in the #2-#3 Camelot range -- correct?
Ed
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dsafanda
Nov 8, 2004, 9:27 PM
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I would describe the first pitch of Moonlight as harder than anything on the first 3 pitches of Spaceshot. The free climbing on Spaceshot p1-3 is really pretty easy. p2 might be a bit wide at points but it protects very well. I agree with the Supertopo ratings for Spaceshot which are 5.4/5.7/5.5.
Lots of .75"-1.5" for p6 and lots of 1"-3" for p7 but it's not hard to leapfrog if don't have that many cams. At that point it is cruiser C1 or 5.10.
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iamthewallress
Nov 8, 2004, 9:39 PM
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My 2 cents worth...If it were me, I'd plan on 3 or four days...One or two to wait for the people who got there in front of you, one to fix to the top of 4, and one to do the rest of the route and find the descent in the daylight. If you do this, you won't need the heavy aid rack of multiple large pieces required by the upper pitches (unless you are comfy back cleaning a lot) while you free climb, and you can probably avoid hauling the lower pitches (which sucks even with a partner).
The first pithces are protectable where it's tricky, and if you're not comfortable doing them free w/ pro and no bag, you probably won't be comfortable doing the descent with a pig and no pro. Bring offset gear. If your not very tall, bring a hook.
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diesel___smoke
Nov 8, 2004, 9:41 PM
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In reply to: You guys might actually talk me into it. Definitely not using the gri gri as my belay device on those first three pitches, though. I also understand that it's nice to have several in the #2-#3 Camelot range -- correct?
Paul (addiroids) mentioned to me that he wished he had more #2's for the route than he brought... not sure how many he had, though. Ask him.
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grayhghost
Nov 8, 2004, 10:30 PM
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I am not trying to debate the
ratings (dumb) of specific
pitches of Spaceshot. I am
trying to give him a better
suggestion from MY experience.
I remember the start of the
second pitch of Spaceshot as being
a wide crack with fall potential right
back onto the belay ledge. When I
am aid-soloing I like to wear my
approach shoes, adding at least one
number grade to the topo-listed
grade. I also feel bolts are safer in
an aid-solo situation because drilled-
angles are pointing slightly up, all the
better to pull out in a solo-aid setup.
Just my 2 cents, flame on flamer.
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flamer
Nov 8, 2004, 10:51 PM
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What this topo labels as the first "pitch" just isn't. It's NBD, the "climbing" is like 15ft of 5.5 proceeded and followed by lot's ultrs easy gully type stuff. And there's usually a fixed rope! It's not really a pitch.
josh
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flamer
Nov 8, 2004, 10:53 PM
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In reply to: I am not trying to debate the ratings (dumb) of specific pitches of Spaceshot. I am trying to give him a better suggestion from MY experience. I remember the start of the second pitch of Spaceshot as being a wide crack with fall potential right back onto the belay ledge. When I am aid-soloing I like to wear my approach shoes, adding at least one number grade to the topo-listed grade. I also feel bolts are safer in an aid-solo situation because drilled- angles are pointing slightly up, all the better to pull out in a solo-aid setup. Just my 2 cents, flame on flamer.
Dude, you know nothing about drilled angles or apparently about bolts in sandstone.
Have you done spaceshot?
I'll keep flaming(or correcting as the case me be) as long as you keep giving bad info.
josh
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grayhghost
Nov 8, 2004, 11:14 PM
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I have placed both types of protection,
fallen on both types of protection, rigged
both for rope-solo and pulled both with
my fingers. I have done Spaceshot in a
day as well. You have not corrected any
false information. As stated, these are MY
OPINIONS, I thought the chimney moves
at the start of the second pitch were harder
than 5.7, and I think Prodigal is a better,
safer alternative.
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dsafanda
Nov 8, 2004, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: What this topo labels as the first "pitch" just isn't. It's NBD, the "climbing" is like 15ft of 5.5 proceeded and followed by lot's ultrs easy gully type stuff. And there's usually a fixed rope! It's not really a pitch.
Very true...unless of coarse you're stupid enough(as I was on my first wall) to try and haul this section. Then it feels very much like a real mother f@#*er of a pitch. ;)
I still haven't been back to do Spaceshot in a day but I think that's when that route would really shine.
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brianinslc
Nov 9, 2004, 12:11 AM
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In reply to: Dude, you know nothing about drilled angles or apparently about bolts in sandstone. Have you done spaceshot?
Carefull with the drilled angles in Zion. Saw one that snapped in half from body weight only (couple of seasons ago by now, last pitch of Spaceshot). Was an old SMC, same vintage as a bunch of those fixed, drilled, baby angles (someone has a large stock of these dudes, eh, dangle?). Appeared as if corrosion had ate its way through the upper part of the nose, where installing the angle had damaged the protective coating (was one of them goldish colored SMC's).
Be wise to back up any used for belaying....etc...
Back on topic...I think either Prodigal or Space Shot would be fine for a T-day solo. Plan to be chilly in the shade. If were me, I'd probably suggest Space Shot over Prodigal Sun as it gets a tad more sun and the pitches would tend to move along a bit faster. First couple of pitches are reasonable free climbing (5.6-ish with the hike around to the bolt ladder start ledge). Good pro, too. Of course, cleaning then juggin' them steep pitches might be yahooooo.
Was an article in Rock and Ice (?) a few years back on C.D.'s solo (kind of embarrassing, IMHO, on how long it took). Its the issue with the Spaceshot soloist on the cover.
Brian in SLC
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flamer
Nov 9, 2004, 1:40 AM
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In reply to: Carefull with the drilled angles in Zion. Saw one that snapped in half from body weight only (couple of seasons ago by now, last pitch of Spaceshot).
I've seen 1/2 inch by 3 inch(Rawl) bolts pull out in less than 2 years in zion sandstone....that was on spaceshot as well. It's probably still hanging by the chain....I've also seen drilled angles last for years or not! It all just depend's really.....I don't trust much of the stuff made by smc personally...it's like they use bad metal.....
Wow mr ghost you did spaceshot IAD!!!!
cool.
josh
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sketchypro
Nov 10, 2004, 12:45 PM
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Hey y'all,
thanks for the super-beta
I like the idea of fixing the 1st 4 pitches
'bout how much rope will i need for that?
iamthewallress:
<>
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sketchypro
Nov 10, 2004, 12:54 PM
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oh yeah,
forgot,
I found this link on supertopo:
"Safanda.com — An amazing flash trip report/show on climbing Spaceshot in Zion National Park. You must check this out."
You have to click on web desing, then flash media, then scroll to the bottom of the far left pane and click DSDS interactive trip report
WAY COOL
Ed
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