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danwilli
Jun 4, 2002, 1:33 PM
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I just found out that my local crag is considering setting bolts for toprope anchors to minimize the use of trees and rocks for anchors, and thus minimize wear and tear on them. I was wondering if others have seen this, and what their thoughts are. I guess it's a good idea, but wasn't sure if there was any negative effects.
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spike_in_milton
Jun 4, 2002, 1:52 PM
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That's likely to happen out our way at Rattlesnake Point as well. It's a *very* popular spot, and very environmentally sensitive, with a lot of 1000+ year old cedars growing along the cliff edge that have taken damage over the years. Even with a ban now in place on anchoring to the cedars, it happens. So I think the bolts at this location are a good idea, as long as the bolters know what they're doing (apparently there was *another* injured climber there last weekend).
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killclimbz
Jun 4, 2002, 1:56 PM
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If the area is popular and gets a lot of climbing abuse it is probably a good thing. Bolts don't really do anything to the rock, except for the unsightlyness. If done right it should reduce the amount of erosion that the cliffs are experiencing on top. It should also help cut down on inexperienced people setting up bad anchors.
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jman
Jun 4, 2002, 7:23 PM
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Danwilli...I'm from the DC area also. Kind of curious what crag you were talking about and where did you hear it? If they're willing to put up bolts for TR anchors, I wonder if they're also considering installing bolts for sport leads.
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climber1
Jun 4, 2002, 7:38 PM
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just curious. is it possible to place PRO for anchors?
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danwilli
Jun 4, 2002, 7:40 PM
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Jman, They're doing it at Carderock, MD. There was a flyer posted on the message board as you walk down the path towards the climbing area. I don't know about sport climbing though.
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conkdg
Jun 4, 2002, 7:42 PM
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Hello, Check out this link that is a discussion on the pro's and con's of toprope bolting at Carderock. http://adventureschool.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=6&forum=8&11 As for the possiblility of sport leads in the area... probably not in yours or my lifetime, local ethic is geared towards clean climbing.
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danwilli
Jun 4, 2002, 7:43 PM
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Climber1, That is what people typically do. Either set pro, or tie anchors with top ropes. They're setting bolts cause they're worried the trees are taking to much of a beating from people continually tying to them.
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conkdg
Jun 4, 2002, 8:01 PM
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One of my concerns about setting the bolts is that inexperienced climbers, and camps with inexperienced instructors(of which there are many in the area) will improperly use these anchors. We all see it done at sport climbing areas... people toprope and lower right off the rawl bolts or cold shuts. This puts extreme stress and wear on the bolts, and after even a short amount of time in these high use situations, the bolts may become dangerous and need replacement. Using a tensionless anchor on a tree(3 or more wraps) does not hurt the tree in any way. The only concern for the trees is the foot traffic around the base and roots. So as a previous post said, be active in local trail maitenence and learn how to tie a proper anchor! See you at C-Rock DanWilli
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danwilli
Jun 4, 2002, 8:06 PM
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conkdg, I totally agree with you. I will admit, I would have no idea how to properly use a bolt. Never had the ocasion to use one before. Have you seen the message that is posted on the message board as you walk into carderock? It sounds like they've already decided to do it. There is a phone number to call to express concerns. I think it would be smart to start calling.
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conkdg
Jun 4, 2002, 8:11 PM
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Hey DanWilli, I've seen the signs. I don't think it's going to happen. That sign has been up for over a year. I know some local activists who are heavily against the idea, and would definitely be speaking out if they were really about to install the bolts... but you never know I guess.
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bulldog
Jun 4, 2002, 8:39 PM
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Most of the popular top-roping spots around here have double bolts at the top of the climbs. Heck, if one is worried about someone mis-using a pair of bolts to set up an anchor (as compared to using trees or rocks) - I can't see how the natural placements would be more idiot-proof. If you can't set an anchor on 2 bolts, then you probably can't do it properly by slinging a couple trees. Bulldog
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danwilli
Jun 4, 2002, 8:51 PM
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Cool, I didn't realize that it had been up for that long. I just noticed it for the first time a week or so ago.
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toddr
Jun 5, 2002, 1:55 AM
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Pilot Mountain State Park allowed the local climbers coalition to install anchor bolts for top roping on most of the routes there. This was done 2-3 years ago. It was done with the intention of stopping people from slinging the trees along the top. Quite a few trees were damaged by repeated use and have since died. Several of the trees I have used for anchors in the past are now gone. Some of the less popular routes are still protected by slinging rocks or trees. I can't see where bolting has lessened the impact of climber traffic along the top. Side trails are everywhere. If anything it may have increased the traffic some. Its hard to say. I think most people are now using the bolts and not the trees. You don't seem to find as much webbing hanging as you use to.
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kaptk
Jun 5, 2002, 5:33 AM
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As long as competant people are installing the bolts, I think that it is a good idea. I think that it can save damage to the trees in most areas. As far as the worry about people not anchoring to the bolts correctly, you could throw up some diagram with instructions on the same board that has the notice on it.
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bmgard
Jun 5, 2002, 7:55 AM
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Here in Durango we have a place called X-rock. It is a top ropers paradise. We have climbs from 5.4 to 5.11 there, all with bolts at the top. I love this place for playing around and teaching new people. It is a great way to spend an afternoon just hanging out and swaping the rope from climb to climb. It is also where i take my girlfriend so that she can get some climbs in too(keeps her off my back for a week or two). I really like having this place but then again the rock really isn't that good there (crapy sand stone that will hold some bolts but i wouldn't want to try a cam). And we have several other awsome places to climb. Actually it is awsome here. If you want to boulder you go to turtel lake. If you want to top rope your at X-rock, sport = Golf wall, and trad is at East Animas. Makes it really nice to decide where to go.
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couloir
Jun 5, 2002, 9:28 AM
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Jman, they probably wouldn't put bolts on a climb to make it into a lead route. The only reason they would put anchors at the top is to keep from damaging the trees.
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danwilli
Jun 5, 2002, 3:14 PM
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So what is the proper way to anchor using bolts, if you are top roping?
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talons05
Jun 5, 2002, 4:02 PM
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When I am setting up a top rope using two bolt anchors, I clip a quickdraw into each anchor, with the bottom gates opposed. OR Or, you can run a sling through both anchors and clip two oval biners (opposed gates) into the sling. A.W.
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theamish
Jun 5, 2002, 5:03 PM
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Normally, in my area, they usually place bolts with bolt hangers then chains are attached to these. This helps equalize the anchors while allowing you to drag the chains to the top of the climb. In this scenario all you have to do is run your rope through the chains and throw it off (make sure the chains are free of burrs that could damage your rope). If all they place are hangers, the easiest and safest way is get a couple of draws with 4 locking biners. hook one end of the draws to the hangers using the biners and run your rope through the biners on the other ends of your draws.
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