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usmc_2tothetop
Dec 2, 2004, 6:19 PM
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Don't know if this should go in "Gear Heads" for knowledge of gear or "Alpine & Ice" for preference from experience.
Anyways I'm 5'9" (not sure if thats a factor) and looking at getting a mountaineering Axe for it's obvious uses. It would be nice to be able to use it as a cane as well but I'm not sure how much of an affect or set back it would be to have a long axe on stuff thats somewhat steep. It doesn't seem like a big deal but I have not had the experience to know for sure.
60cm (23.64in)
65cm (25.61in)
70cm (27.58in)
75cm (29.55in)
???
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sarcat
Dec 2, 2004, 6:32 PM
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I had an old geezer mountaineer dude tell me one of the biggest mistakes people make is buy their axe to short.
I'm 6'1" and got a 70cm.
I've never felt it was to long (of course I feel that all the time).
EDIT: I went and measured it and it wasn't as long as I thought.
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hugepedro
Dec 2, 2004, 6:34 PM
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Your height is definitely a factor. I'm 6'3" and my mountaineering axe is 70cm. If I were you I wouldn't go with anything longer than 65cm. Stand, holding the axe at your side, arm extended straight down, the spike should be dangling somewhere around your upper ankle.
Being able to use it as a cane is not as important as being able to use it on slope angles above 30 degress without throwing yourself off balance. You'll find that you can sill use the shorter axe as a cane anyway, because you're not walking on a sidewalk, most of the time there are protruding features (rock, ice, up-slope snow) that you can "cane" the axe against. And a short axe is lighter.
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salathiel
Dec 2, 2004, 6:35 PM
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I have been told that length doesn't matter as long as you know how to use it correctly...I think they may have lied to make me feel better.
Blur
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usmc_2tothetop
Dec 2, 2004, 6:44 PM
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So here I am at my cubicle. I measured all 4 lengths on my Tie that I took off, and marked each one with a paper clip. (Office McGyver) While standing up arms down and tie by my side (ignoring wierd looks from co-workers) I think I will go with the 65cm.
Thanks for the advice guys.
now I don't want to put my tie back on.
God office work is like being wheelchair bound. I feel like the late Chris Reeves.
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cire
Dec 2, 2004, 6:47 PM
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Put the boots on you will be wearing on the mountain. Hold the ax by your side the tip should be just off the floor this would be the correct lenght for you. Just a thought!! This is a tool you will carry all day so lightness is a factor. Far as I know BD makes the lightest one. Length? Hold it by your side and get one that is a 2-4 inches shorter. When you plant the axe on an up hill slope the way you will most likely be going, you will have to lift the a shorter axe up less than a longer one to plant, saving engery plus the axe will weight less. It will also fit along side your pack and not stick up as much.
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samovar
Dec 2, 2004, 7:08 PM
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Shaft Lengths:
55cm - good for steep snow and ice or carrying in the rucksack for occasional use on mainly rock climbs in an alpine setting.
60cm - good all-around alpine length for shorter people
70cm - standard all-around alpine length. Good general mountaineering length for shorter people.
75cm and 80cm - general mountaineering lengths
Determining the length that is right for you: To choose the correct shaft length for general mountaineering, hold the axe in walking stick position with your arm dropped at your side. The tip of the spike should be a few inches above the ground so that when the spike is buried in the snow when you are traversing a slope of moderate incline, your uphill hand (holding the axe) is in a comfortable position - not too high or so low you have to stoop to make contact with the slope
http://www.ushba.com/catalog/altai.html
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pancaketom
Dec 2, 2004, 8:00 PM
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It really depends on the conditions you will be using the axe. I prefer a pretty long one because I learned using an old school long axe in the cascades, and it did double duty as a walking stick. This is pretty handy for most everything, especially glissading, bushwhacking through slash, and stream crossings. The times it sucks is when things get really steep or when you are walking in a trench and the axe is up too high to be comfortable. (then I usually use it across my body with the uphill hand down lower on the shaft). Another disadvantage is that a longer axe is heavier and tends to get in the way more when it is strapped to your pack.
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cire
Dec 2, 2004, 8:10 PM
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BD Raven Pro is lightest as far as I know. It has some minor disadvantages.
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usmc_2tothetop
Dec 2, 2004, 9:04 PM
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I was testing lengths (the best I could) at home with my boots on and a yard stick. I think I'm going to go with the 65cm. Being that I'm 5'9" and all. The longer would be nice as a cane as well but I would rather be inconvenienced on flat ground then on sloping. I have been checking out the BDs but that USHBA looks really nice. It's all one piece, VERY light, and it won't get as cold.
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hugepedro
Dec 2, 2004, 11:01 PM
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This might be a little more than you're looking for (i.e. more technical capability than just a general mountaineering axe).
http://img.epinions.com/...e_Axe-resized200.jpg
This is my primary axe, the Grivel Jorasses. It has a technical pick, so when the going gets real steep I can whip out my second tool and go near vertical for stretches. You can attach the leash on the shaft (as shown in the picture) for use as a technical tool, or on the head to ease plunging the shaft in deep snow.
Even on glaciers you will often encounter sections where low-angle ice climbing technique is required. These sections (like 45 to 60 degree ice) can be climbed safely using a single tool. In such situations it sure is nice to have a tool that performs well in piolet ancre position.
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rongoodman
Dec 3, 2004, 4:41 PM
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I'm 5'8" and find 60cm good for steep snow and self-arrest. For walking, I put the axe away and use ski poles.
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paulraphael
Dec 3, 2004, 7:19 PM
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As far as length relative to your height, Cire is right on: you measure by where the axe falls when you hold it by your side. This is because your height is only one factor—your ape index (relation between your height and wingspan) is equally important. This way of measuring takes both into account.
For general use, having the spike land at your ankle is where most people are comfortable. From there you can consider any personal preferences, and intended uses. If you plan to spend a lot of time on glaciers, longer may be better. No glaciers but lots of time on steep stuff, then shorter is better.
If you feel you need a cane on very low angle terrain, then i'd suggest a ski pole/trekking pole kind of thing. you don't want to sacrifice the usefulness of your axe on the steeper terrain where you'll need it.
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iclimbtoo
Dec 3, 2004, 7:47 PM
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In reply to: Your height is definitely a factor. I'm 6'3" and my mountaineering axe is 70cm. If I were you I wouldn't go with anything longer than 65cm. Stand, holding the axe at your side, arm extended straight down, the spike should be dangling somewhere around your upper ankle.
this is an outdated technique...actually, what you want is something that is comfortable and that feels easy to use. I'm tall but use a shorter axe because of how comfortable it feels for me to swing, arrest with, ect. you want an axe that is comfortable for you. practice, if you can, with different sizes and find which one feels most comfortable.
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hugepedro
Dec 3, 2004, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Your height is definitely a factor. I'm 6'3" and my mountaineering axe is 70cm. If I were you I wouldn't go with anything longer than 65cm. Stand, holding the axe at your side, arm extended straight down, the spike should be dangling somewhere around your upper ankle. this is an outdated technique...actually, what you want is something that is comfortable and that feels easy to use. I'm tall but use a shorter axe because of how comfortable it feels for me to swing, arrest with, ect. you want an axe that is comfortable for you. practice, if you can, with different sizes and find which one feels most comfortable.
Outdated? Hardly. This is the measurement technique that coincides with the modern use of shorter axes. If the spike is dangling somewhere around your upper ankle, it will be 6-8 inches off the floor, and that is a short axe.
My 70cm axe dangles 8 inches off the floor, and that is a perfect length for me, as opposed to the old school, 90cm, wooden shafted, Stubai axe I used on my first summit, which dangled about 1 inch off the floor.
My post advocated using a shorter axe, as opposed to others who are advocating an axe that dangles anywhere from just off the floor to 4 inches off the floor. Perhaps "upper ankle" means something different to you than it does to me?
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maldaly
Dec 3, 2004, 10:56 PM
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rongoodman got it right. Use a shorter axe (60-65) and ski poles. Get the 3-section poles so they don't stick up so far when they're on your pack.
mal
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blue_ice
Dec 5, 2004, 3:17 AM
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I'm 5'-10" and 70cm is perfect for me. BD is great but I have a Cassin Flash. Works great for me and I picked it up for less than 80 bucks.
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micahmcguire
Dec 5, 2004, 6:53 AM
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length has never been a bigger stipulation than weight for me. I am 6'2" and use a 75 cm, but commonly use a much shorter ice-tool for the same tasks (plus a bit of ice) and find that the length really doesn't matter that much. Weight, however, is a big deal. It affects not only how much weight you carry overall, but also how tired your arms get carrying and using the thing. Go light. And remember, too long is cumbersome.
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climb14er
Dec 7, 2004, 12:56 AM
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I'm 5-9, long arms and 66cm is a perfect length for me.
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