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maxclimber1w
Dec 4, 2004, 8:07 AM
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Hey guys. Just curious, I'm not of age yet, but I'd love to become an AMGA or ACMG certified guide and make my living climbing. Are there any guides about, and, if so, got any tips for a young guy trying to get a head start on the requirements, technical skills, and other things necessary to become a guide?
Thanks
MAX
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jimdavis
Dec 4, 2004, 9:51 AM
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AMGA, they're really the only standard that matters these days besides the IMFGA (which they're part of.)
I know plenty of AMGA guides, all top notch.
Cheers,
Jim
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ropefriend
Dec 5, 2004, 5:44 AM
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www.amga.com has tons of info on certification and getting involved with an AMGA accredited school, your first step in becoming a climbing guide. You can also go to adventureriskmanagement.com or wildernessoutings.com to check out First Aid and other foundational coursework (they may only be west coast, but you can be referred there, they are quite excellent). Most schools require solid 5.10 lead skills and excellent teaching skills (aka 'soft' skills).
You'll need Wilderness Advanced First Aid or Wilderness First Responder certification as a foundation for leading courses, and you'll need AMGA toprope site manager certification to start work with any reputable school. After that there are more advanced AMGA Certifications you can get, but that'll likely be down the road when you can spare a few thousand duckets and a few weeks in the backcountry doing training and simulations.
It's a proud profession, but it's not for everyone. Good luck!
Ropefriend
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guangzhou
Dec 5, 2004, 8:55 AM
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AMGA isn't the only name that matters, but that not important at this point.
AMGA or another reputable certification is nice, but it is not needed in the guiding world. To become a guide, get to know the guiding community, a guide service in the states is more likely to hire someone they know and trust without certification, than someone who is certified but unknown to them. Most professional guides in the U.S. aren't AMGA certified. Guiding in Europe and Canada is different, but you can piggyback with other guides if that guide trusts you.
To become marketable, get some well-rounded climbing experience. What type of guiding do you want to do, mountaineering, rock, skiing? Become adept at all the skills in that discipline. Get trained in rescue procedures for the disciplines you want to work in, and make sure you are noticed by the guide services you want to work for. Learn to teach, I have lots of climbing partners who are excellent climbers, but I would never send them out with my clients. They just can’t teach.
I ran a guide service for 4 years and never hired someone base on their resume alone. Even now, when I put together trips for clients in Asia, I hire climbers that I have met who made a good impression on me. Competence in climbing, teaching, and rescue are prerequisites, but I hire people who have the much needed people skills.
Climb a lot, climb more than your local and regional areas, and get active in the climbing community. Start hanging out at guide companies, if you are worth your salt, you eventually be noticed and asked to help out. The first job is the hardest.
Once you have started guiding, then worry about your professional development. Talking to co-worker at that point will give you much more insight.
My advice, find a job that allows you time to climb, but avoid the outdoor industry all together. You’ll get much more climbing done that way. I now climb more than I ever did when I was guiding.
Eman
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ropefriend
Dec 6, 2004, 12:23 AM
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Oh, another outfit to check out, the Association for Experiential Education; they post related job openings, have educational events, and are a good resource for the working professional outdoor educator. You can focus on rock only, but not in Seattle.
And as far as 'rogue' guiding goes, that will be a thing of the past in the near future. Most or all Natl. parks require AMGA Certification for anyone working in the park legally; that goes for Yosemite and Josh, for RMNP, etc.... climbing a lot of varied terrain and on different rock is important, but it won't make a guide out of you.
http://www.aee2.org/customer/pages.php?pageid=28
Ropefriend
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slobmonster
Dec 6, 2004, 12:35 AM
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Are you Canadian? If so, definitely consider pursuing certification via the ACMG. FAR better guide mentors and structure than what you will find with the AMGA.
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guangzhou
Dec 6, 2004, 2:24 AM
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Actually, no park requires AMGA certification. What they require is that you apply for a permit, normally a concession right. The process is pretty simple if not many guides already have permision. In Yosemite, YSM has the rights, no one else.
The only regular requirement is insurance.
With so many climbing areas on private land, certification in the US is a long way off.
I still hold permits for three National forest and a couple of state parks. Each area had its own rules and requiremnet. Non actually ask me about certification or evr check to make sure I was skilled. All asked me for proff of insurance.
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slobmonster
Dec 6, 2004, 2:35 AM
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In reply to: I still hold permits for three National forest and a couple of state parks. |
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guangzhou
Dec 6, 2004, 2:38 AM
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Sure, find me a guide I can trust and who has insurance and I will. All I want is a 15% comision per guide day from the service.
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climbhoser
Dec 6, 2004, 3:45 AM
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Listen to Guangzhou, he tells it like it is. Right now about the only thing AMGA does is make you appealing to international companies. There are, however, gazillions of American companies that guide internationally that don't require certification. It is my experience that most guides hardly make the money to even get the AMGA cert and the only reason to go ahead and do it is if you want to sound badass. I think the forest service (DNR) is on the track to requiring certification, but it is a long time coming. The one thing that is important as far as certs go is being AMGA affiliated as a company...this at least tells clients that the guides in the company ARE trained to a certain standard, it just doesn't say by who. The individual cert tells clients that the guide was trained by AMGA instructors...
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guangzhou
Dec 6, 2004, 7:35 AM
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Very few guide make a good living at guiding, most have other jobs.
Internationally, unless you mean Europe, AMGA isn't that important either. Actually, in most places worth guiding ourside Erope, you don't need anything.
Eman
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karlbaba
Dec 11, 2004, 3:30 PM
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I've been guiding about 8 years and hung around guides for 25 years. Here's a couple point you should consider
1. To enjoy guiding, you must enjoy people and facilitating their learning and good times. If you don't, guiding will ruin climbing for you. It's also about enjoying being outdoors too, but if it's just climbing that you love, then you'll be sorry if you become a guide.
2. If you get hurt, and it could happen to anybody, your guiding days might be over, so don't forget to prepare for another career while you're doing your school thing. You should also do this because much of guiding is seasonal, and you might not want to do it when you get old either, so watch your back. Everybody has different talents but some alternative careers pay well and afford great climbing schedules. Paramedics and Nurses, for instance, often work 24 hour shifts with 4 days off in a row. Nurses also make great money and can work extra minimally (per diem) if they want to climb a lot.
I love guiding but I've seen it mess up folks relationship with climbing more than once
rock on
Peace
karl
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rgold
Dec 11, 2004, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: Actually, no park requires AMGA certification.
Maybe, but from the Mohonk Preserve's guiding regulations:
In reply to: All Visiting Guides must hold current American Mountain Guides Association certifications in the rock or alpine disciplines. All Individual Certified Guides must hold current American Mountain Guides Association certifications in the rock discipline.
As someone who guided as a way to finance graduate school, I recommend a careful reading of Karl's comments.
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dief
Dec 11, 2004, 11:56 PM
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If there are any climbing clubs near get involved with them. It can be a great way to learn all about teaching climbing and working with new climbers. You will need to learn self-rescue skills.
Find a guide and offer to be their free sherpa. There are tons of nifty skills a good guide uses to make guiding more efficient and safe. Ask the AMGA what classes they offer in your neck of the woods.
I have been guiding and rigging part-time for 2+ decades. I still enjoy it.
Have fun!
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deltav
Oct 24, 2005, 12:39 PM
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While not every guide is required to be AMGA certified, most insurance groups will not insure you without some sort of credentials, and in the U.S, AMGA is that credential. Land managers in the private sector are starting to allow only AMGA certs. to climb in their areas. The AMGA top rope site manager course is a good place to start and isn't that expensive. If you are involved in a university, I suggest that you check out their outdoor adventure program and get involved.
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estwing
Oct 24, 2005, 2:29 PM
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Hi, many of the above post talk about the specific certification bodies. As for getting to that level (which is my goal) go for mileage. You want to be climbing a whole lot of rock. Not all of it at a high standard. Ideally you will also find a like minded partner with whom you can role play. Get on climbs that challenge you physicaly for technical climbing skills. But also get on the routes in your area that are often guided, the 5.7-5.9's usually. Lead all the pitches and "guide you partner up. This will open your eyes. As you are doing all the work. Have you partner pretend to be somewhat helpless with organizing gear and ropes. You'll learn to place gear when needed to protect the second, that is also really easy to clean.
Also as mentioned get very comfortable with the standard practices of self rescue. There are no set ways to a handle all situations, but with the tools you learn you will be able to improvise and adapt.
www.acmg.ca check out the prereqs.
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