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prezwoodz
Dec 5, 2004, 10:48 PM
Post #26 of 73
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weve already been paying $5 to park here for a long time in Alaska. All the places around anchorage have a fee and most along the highway and all the campgrounds and areas of those types. if people park somewhere here and they know about it than they make you pay. Its pretty lame considering everytime some trails get fixed up its always some group donating there time and effort to do so. And the state gets that money and builds some big freakin ugly parking lot because some fisherman were to dumb to look both ways before crossing a street. (emphasis on "some" not all :) They blasted lots of the mountain away to get that parking lot in there :roll:
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josephgdawson
Dec 6, 2004, 7:28 AM
Post #27 of 73
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Registered: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 303
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"Sorry to say it but this is the kind of thing that happens when people vote republican.
Vote Green!"
This is just silly. More taxes are what happens when you vote liberal, that is for Democrats or Greens. If it was up to the Greens, we would not even be allowed to climb. It always blows me away that so many climbers are liberal when it is liberal interest groups that pose a very large threat to climbers. Fees are another way the gov't milks us to support the welfare state. They are better termed taxes.
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md3
Dec 6, 2004, 3:12 PM
Post #28 of 73
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Registered: Feb 13, 2004
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A quote from an Eastern cragger:
In reply to: im not familiar with the areas that youre mentioning, but if theyve become popular destinations, then i imagine the up keep and maintenance costs have increased too.
From what I have seen of the budgets, the majority of money from these fee programs goes to developing and maintaining roadside visitor centers and short sections of highly built up trail just a few hundred yards from the road. Lazy fat park rangers need comfy places to sip their coffy and be freindly with the lazy fat visitors who drive through. Climbers and other back country athletes are not important to anyone involved in the process. This situation will only get worse.
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sandbag
Dec 6, 2004, 4:30 PM
Post #29 of 73
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Registered: Jan 12, 2003
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Heres something to think about:
In an Alternate history, lets say that no parks existed, just the good ol wild outdoors. No roads, no traffic, no people. Just all the free open space one mind can imagine, similar to say When Muir et al rambled about. And no fees. No rangers. No easy place to park your car that you drove into the back country with and carried all your gear up close so you wouldnt have to hike 50 miles one way to get to a crag that you found out about via someone else's trip to there.
Its all about balance. The people that scream and wave their arms about so wildly at the first notion of a fee increase, are reacting emotionally, which gnerally is irrational. Not always, say if a building is on fire, etc, but for this type of thing it is (IMO). Do more research, im still waiting for the data i asked for in my earlier posts. Comparisons of what it was, where it is, and where its allegedly going. Youre sentient beings, use that melon and dig, then react. become cognizant. try to be objective until its time to not be objective. then react
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gohighgodeep
Dec 6, 2004, 5:36 PM
Post #30 of 73
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Registered: Mar 2, 2004
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well said sandbag... i understand not wanting to fork out more for taxes, but at the same time, i personally have no problem paying fees for climbing permits and park parking, etc... same with school levies... granted not all problems can be solved by the government throwing money at them, but it at least makes it a bit easier to address the problems financially. i personally believe that voting for taxes for parks, conservation, education and the like benefit the country... and us... more than trying to get out of paying more taxes to the government.
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pancaketom
Dec 6, 2004, 10:34 PM
Post #31 of 73
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Registered: Dec 9, 2002
Posts: 391
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but I don't want to pay increased feas for paving the road that leads to increased fees for heated flush toilet at the newly paved campground loop with water and electric hookups that lead to increased fees for the campground run by a concession that leads to not allowing camping anywhere nearby to make their new expensive campground a money maker for them so they build a new fee collecting entrance station with a gate so you can only come in and out when they are there collecting the fee. I'd rather just stick with the dirt road to the old dirt campground with a smelly pit toilet that I can enjoy for 2 weeks, or drive in late at night for the alpine start. oh well, guess I'll have to walk or bicycle in now.
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gds
Dec 6, 2004, 11:21 PM
Post #32 of 73
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Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 710
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Well there are all sorts of aruments about the fee demo being unconstitutional (it's not) and its impact on wilderness. I have a different gripe.
This is a very regressive tax. $5 really doesn't matter much to me but it matters a lot to families that are living at or close to poverty. So, here in Tucson we have wonderfull areas that are great for hiking, camping, cycling, climbing, etc. etc. And these areas almost all on public (federal) land. But poor families are excluded by this seemingly modest fee. To them $5 plus gas is a burden.
To me government should not be in the business of generating revenues. Taxes ( and fees) should not be seen as revenues but rather as a way to distribute the costs of government (public services) among its citizens-hopefully in an equitable manner. The fee demo is regressive not equitable and should be opposed on that basis alone.
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lin
Dec 6, 2004, 11:26 PM
Post #33 of 73
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Registered: Sep 24, 2004
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Welcome to the world of the exploiters--it may well sound too melodramatic, but just look at it.
Those who want to impose these fees are the leaches, the ticks, the brigands, that want to make us pay for enjoying our country. They do not love it: to them, it is just a protsitute's body over which they have COntrol. They want to charge you for any pleasure you may find in it.
We must RESIST.
For years I HAVE ILLEGALLY CAMPED IN Yosemite. Should they ever catch me, I will take the position that the campgrounds are unsafe, due to smoke, noise, etc. AND Counter sue THEM for not providing a safe camping environment.
We must resist these fee collectors. The enforcers of these rules are mineless executors of those who are not protecting the resource we love.
They deserve no respect.
Lin
Lin
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p_grandbois
Dec 6, 2004, 11:28 PM
Post #34 of 73
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Registered: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 328
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What else will your American government put taxes on......makes me laugh
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fracture
Dec 7, 2004, 12:51 AM
Post #36 of 73
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: Sorry to say it but this is the kind of thing that happens when people vote republican. Ummm... Fee Demo was enacted during Clinton's era in '96, idiot. :roll:
Ummm.... the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress in '96, idiot. :roll:
(Both of you guys are oversimplifying).
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kpalsson
Dec 7, 2004, 2:52 AM
Post #37 of 73
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Registered: Jan 16, 2004
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In reply to: What if every forest service employee that has been out writing tickets for the "Adventure Pass" had been out "bugging trees"? What impact would that have had on the Bark Beetle infestation? The FS dealt with that problem sucessfully thru several drought cycles since the 1920's. Trail maintinence has also ceased concurently with the start of the original fee demo program. The money is NOT! being spent in a way that produces ANY benefits to back country users and is, even worse, leading to the divertion of resources from legitimate and necissary forest management requirements to profit making activities.
That's a problem with the fee demo program, not a problem with use fees. You already pay use fees, like everytime you pay that bridge toll. The fee demo program isn't intrinsically bad, just it's implementation.
Cheers,
Karl P
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rispo
Dec 7, 2004, 2:59 AM
Post #38 of 73
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Registered: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 124
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Rock on man, the wilderness is wild and free, there should be no roads, fees or RV toilet hookups or showers etc. etc. I know a lot of people will argue and flame away at this one, but its the freakin wilderness, if you're not going to endure being dirty, inconvienienced and put some effort into getting to your climbing, hiking and camping areas then don't go. Parks are accomodating the average American putting roads to the tops of mountains (Mt. Washington for example), fast food places and various other conveniences. What happened to the wilderness and enjoying being alone outdoors without incumberances. Of course there needs to be roads and campgrounds and camping laws because too many people abuse the planet but make it within reason. You shouldn't be charging me for climbing a rock or wanting to take a walk outside.
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thegreytradster
Dec 7, 2004, 3:55 AM
Post #39 of 73
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Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 2151
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In reply to: The fee demo program isn't intrinsically bad, just it's implementation. Karl P
The problem is the law codifies the bad implimentation!
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xclimber
Dec 7, 2004, 1:45 PM
Post #40 of 73
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Registered: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 426
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So, has anyone heard what the outcome of yesterday's session was? Was the ammendment removed? Was Regula reviled?
Jerry
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verticalclimb
Dec 7, 2004, 7:57 PM
Post #41 of 73
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Registered: May 16, 2003
Posts: 34
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In reply to: As far as the original argument, im not really sure what youre trying to say, its too filled with emotional diatribe to make too much sense, outline the pros/cons, and list the things that are changing and from what they currently are now, otherwise you will come off as a fruitcake and not really gain any support, not from me at least. I honed my analytical debate skills terrorizing the "Clean Water Action " people and greenpeace too, not that they dont do good things, but when you scream about pollution and bilge dumping from ships, meanwhile youre chasing them around in 2 cycle oil and gas farting nightmares, youre not really helping your cause. Good luck.
Thanks for bringing some level-headed-ness back to the discussion. As an politically active person, I can't stand meetings and comments that have so much emotion built into an argument that you lose focus on the matter at hand.
To the OP, how about stating some facts and analyzing them against current conditions. Then I will be happy to call my representatives. But I refuse to bother them with a "whining" session.
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gds
Dec 7, 2004, 8:19 PM
Post #42 of 73
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Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 710
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In reply to: Thanks for bringing some level-headed-ness back to the discussion. As an politically active person, I can't stand meetings and comments that have so much emotion built into an argument that you lose focus on the matter at hand. To the OP, how about stating some facts and analyzing them against current conditions. Then I will be happy to call my representatives. But I refuse to bother them with a "whining" session.
You missed some very good and level headed comments. You also missed the date to respond. I guess your political activity is passive rather than pro-active.
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kellie
Dec 7, 2004, 8:24 PM
Post #43 of 73
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Registered: Apr 15, 2003
Posts: 125
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In reply to: Thanks for bringing some level-headed-ness back to the discussion. As an politically active person, I can't stand meetings and comments that have so much emotion built into an argument that you lose focus on the matter at hand. To the OP, how about stating some facts and analyzing them against current conditions. Then I will be happy to call my representatives. But I refuse to bother them with a "whining" session.
Sorry dude, my original post was part of another thread and referenced it; then it got split off by someone else and so that info is no longer right above my post. A couple of things that will now change with the passage of this bill:
Not having the pass is a criminal offence, punishable by up to 6 months in jail and a fine of $5,000. Early interpretations of the legislation indicate that it be applied to whole sections of public land--not just cars in parking areas.
Repeals the "golden" series of senior passes.
The new fee program extends the "Demo" for ten years, and expands it to include lands managed by five federal agencies--not just the forest service.
Language in the bill allows land managers designate one official “Fee Free Day" per year so those unwilling or unable to buy the pass could use public lands.
Here's the complete text of the bill.
H. R. 3283
To improve recreational facilities and visitor opportunities on Federal recreational lands by reinvesting receipts from fair and consistent recreational fees and passes, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 8, 2003
Mr. REGULA (for himself, Mr. WAMP, Mr. SHERWOOD, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. PETRI, Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania, and Mr. HOBSON) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Resources, and in addition to the Committee on Agriculture, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
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A BILL
To improve recreational facilities and visitor opportunities on Federal recreational lands by reinvesting receipts from fair and consistent recreational fees and passes, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE AND TABLE OF CONTENTS.
(a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act'.
(b) TABLE OF CONTENTS- The table of contents of this Act is as follows:
Sec. 1. Short title and table of contents.
Sec. 2. Purposes and principles.
Sec. 3. Definitions.
Sec. 4. General recreation fee authority.
Sec. 5. Basic recreation fee.
Sec. 6. Expanded recreation fee.
Sec. 7. Special recreation permit fee.
Sec. 8. General recreation pass authority.
Sec. 9. America the Beautiful--the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
Sec. 10. Other recreation passes.
Sec. 11. Miscellaneous administrative provisions regarding recreation fees and recreation passes.
Sec. 12. Volunteers.
Sec. 13. Special accounts and distribution of recreation fees and recreation pass revenues.
Sec. 14. Expenditures from special accounts.
Sec. 15. Enforcement and protection of receipts.
Sec. 16. Repeal of superseded admission and use fee authorities.
Sec. 17. Relation to other laws and fee collection authorities.
SEC. 2. PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES.
(a) PURPOSES- The purposes of this Act are--
(1) to enhance visitor opportunities regarding Federal public lands by creating a seamless Federal system of recreation opportunities;
(2) to enhance the visitor experience by investing recreation fees in improving recreation opportunities regarding Federal public lands;
(3) to reduce the huge deferred maintenance backlog that adversely affects visitor use and enjoyment of Federal recreational facilities and lands, by focused use of visitor fee revenues;
(4) to help protect and enhance the natural resource, historic, cultural, and other special values of Federal public lands and National Parks that attract hundreds of millions of visitors every year;
(5) to establish a permanent recreation fee program that allows the fees to be used primarily at the site of collection;
(6) to establish a permanent recreation fee program so that important investments in technology may be made;
(7) to streamline, simplify, and improve the recreation fee program; and
(8) to streamline, simplify, and improve the interagency national recreation pass program.
(b) PRINCIPLES- The following principles apply to the recreation fee program authorized by this Act:
(1) BENEFICIAL TO THE VISITING PUBLIC- A majority of the revenue generated by recreation fees should be retained and used at the site where the fees are collected to benefit the visiting public by enhancing the resources, facilities, activities, services, and programs used by the visiting public. Recreation fees should be designed to provide the sites with adequate resources to enhance and supply visitor services, reduce the backlog of deferred maintenance, and restore and enhance impacted or endangered resources.
(2) FAIR AND EQUITABLE- Recreation fees should also be affordable for the visiting public and not significantly impact visitation levels. Recreation fees should be reasonable and based on a consistent and sound rationale. Recreation fee systems should consider and address the relationship between who pays the fee and who benefits from the resources, facilities, activities, services, and programs provided by a recreation program.
(3) EFFICIENT- Recreation fees should be collected and administered in a cost efficient, enforceable, and business-like manner.
(4) COLLABORATIVE- Recreation fees should be developed with input from local communities and other interested persons. Wherever possible or appropriate, Federal land management agencies should coordinate fees with private entities and local, State, and other Federal agencies so as to minimize overlapping costs and simplify fees for the visiting public.
(5) CONVENIENT- Recreation fees should be convenient to pay and recreation passes should be easy to obtain. A variety of payment and purchase location options (including credit card, internet, automated fee machines, and vendor sales) should be available as appropriate and feasible.
(6) ACCOUNTABLE- Federal land management agencies should collect data and publish annually public documentation showing how the recreation fee program is administered. Agencies should evaluate the recreation fee program to consider cost of collection, adherence to policy, use of revenues, fiscal safeguards, and how well the program achieves organizational, site, and community goals.
(7) CONSISTENT- The visiting public should expect a similar fee for similar resources, facilities, activities, services, and programs across Federal land management agencies or in a given geographic area. The costs and benefits associated with a recreation fee or recreation pass should be clearly illustrated and easily understood by the visiting public.
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
In this Act:
(1) BASIC RECREATION FEE- The term `basic recreation fee' means the fee authorized by section 5.
(2) EXPANDED RECREATION FEE- The term `expanded recreation fee' means the fee authorized by section 6.
(3) FEDERAL LAND MANAGEMENT AGENCY- The term `Federal land management agency' means the National Park Service, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service.
(4) NATIONAL PARKS AND FEDERAL RECREATIONAL LANDS PASS - The term `National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass' means the interagency national pass authorized by section 9.
(5) PASSHOLDER- The term `passholder' means a person who purchases or otherwise holds a recreation pass.
(6) RECREATION FEE- The term `recreation fee' means the basic recreation fee, expanded recreation fee, or special recreation permit fee.
(7) RECREATION PASS- The term `recreation pass' means the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass or one of the recreation passes available as authorized by section 10.
(8) SECRETARY CONCERNED- The term `Secretary concerned' means--
(A) the Secretary of the Interior, with respect to the National Park Service, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, the Bureau of Land Management, and the Bureau of Reclamation; and
(B) the Secretary of Agriculture, with respect to the Forest Service.
(9) SECRETARIES- The term `Secretaries' means the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of Agriculture acting jointly.
(10) SPECIAL ACCOUNT- The term `special account' means the special account established in the Treasury under section 13 for a Federal land management agency.
(11) SPECIAL RECREATION PERMIT FEE- The term `special recreation permit fee' means the fee authorized by section 7.
SEC. 4. GENERAL RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY.
(a) AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH- The Secretary concerned shall provide for the establishment of basic recreation fees, expanded recreation fees, and special recreation permit fees that are fair and equitable.
(b) ESTABLISHMENT GUIDELINES- The Secretary concerned shall establish guidelines identifying the process by which a Federal land management agency shall establish and change the amount charged for a basic recreation fee, expanded recreation fee, or special recreation permit fee. The guidelines shall contain a provision requiring that Federal land management agencies coordinate with each other, to the extent practicable, when establishing and changing such fees.
(c) CONSIDERATIONS- Before establishing and setting a price for a recreation fee, the Secretary concerned shall take into consideration the following:
(1) The benefits and services provided to visitors paying the recreation fee.
(2) The public policy or management objectives served.
(3) The effect of multiple fees charged to the public.
(4) The direct and indirect cost to the Government.
(5) The revenue benefits to the Government.
(6) Fees charged at comparable sites or by other public agencies.
(7) The economic and administrative feasibility of fee collection.
(8) The price of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
(d) FEES FOR CERTAIN ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED- The Secretary concerned may not charge a basic recreation fee, expanded recreation fee, or special recreation permit fee--
(1) for travel by private, noncommercial vehicles over any national parkway or any road or highway established as a part of the National Highway System (as defined in section 101 of title 23, United States Code) that is commonly used by the public as a means of travel between two places either or both of which are outside any unit or area of a Federal land management agency at which fees are charged under this Act;
(2) for travel by a person using a private, noncommercial vehicle over any road or highway to any land in which the person has any property right, if the land is within any unit or area of a Federal land management agency at which fees are charged under this Act;
(3) for any person who has a right of access for hunting or fishing privileges under a specific provision of law or treaty; or
(4) for any person who is engaged in the conduct of official Federal, State, or local government business.
(e) WAIVER OR DISCOUNT OF FEES- The Secretary concerned may waive or discount a basic recreation fee, expanded recreation fee, or special recreation permit fee, as considered appropriate by the Secretary concerned.
(f) FEE MANAGEMENT AGREEMENTS- Notwithstanding chapter 63 of title 31, United States Code (commonly known as the Federal Grants and Cooperative Agreements Act), the Secretary concerned may enter into fee management agreements, including contracts, that provide for reasonable commissions, discounts, or reimbursements, with any governmental or nongovernmental entities to provide fee collection and processing services, including visitor reservation services.
SEC. 5. BASIC RECREATION FEE.
(a) FEE AUTHORIZED- Except as provided in subsection (b), the Secretary concerned may charge a basic recreation fee for the following locations:
(1) Units of the National Park System.
(2) National Conservation Areas.
(3) National Recreation Areas.
(4) National Monuments.
(5) National Volcanic Monuments.
(6) National Scenic Areas.
(7) Areas of substantial investment by a Federal land management agency, which refers to Federal lands or waters under the jurisdiction of the Secretary concerned that are not specified in paragraphs (1) through (6), but that--
(A) are managed for recreation purposes or contain at least one major visitor attraction; and
(B) have had substantial investments, as determined by the Secretary concerned, made in their facilities or services, in restoring resource degradation in areas of concentrated public use, including a visitor or interpretive center, a trailhead facility, or a developed parking lot, or in requiring the presence of personnel of a Federal land management agency.
(b) LIMITATIONS ON FEES FOR CERTAIN PERSONS, ACTIVITIES, AND LOCATIONS- The Secretary concerned may not charge a basic recreation fee with respect to any of the following:
(1) A person under 16 years of age.
(2) Outings conducted for noncommercial educational purposes by schools or bonafide academic institutions.
(3) The following National Park System units:
(A) U.S.S. Arizona Memorial.
(B) Independence National Historical Park.
(C) Statue of Liberty National Monument.
(D) National Park System units in the District of Columbia.
(E) The Arlington House-Robert E. Lee National Memorial.
(F) Any National Park System unit covered by section 203 of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (16 U.S.C. 410hh-2), other than Denali National Park and Preserve.
(G) Any National Park System unit containing a deed restriction on charging entrance fees.
(4) For entrance on other routes into the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, or any part thereof, unless a basic recreation fee is charged for entrance into that park on main highways and thoroughfares.
(5) For any person who visits a unit or area under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service and is the holder of a valid migratory bird hunting and conservation stamp issued under section 2 of the Act of March 16, 1934 (16 U.S.C. 718b; commonly known as the Migratory Bird Hunting Stamp Act or Duck Stamp Act).
(6) For any person engaged in a nonrecreational activity authorized under a valid permit issued under any other Act, including a valid grazing permit.
(c) FEE-FREE DAY- At every unit or area of a Federal land management area that charges a basic recreation fee, that Secretary concerned shall designate at least one day annually during periods of high visitation as a `Fee-Free Day' when no basic recreation fee is charged.
SEC. 6. EXPANDED RECREATION FEE.
(a) FEE AUTHORIZED- The Secretary concerned may charge an expanded recreation fee, either in addition to a basic recreation fee or by itself, at Federal lands or waters under the jurisdiction of a Federal land management agency when the Secretary concerned determines that the visitor to those lands or waters--
(1) receives or is provided a direct service;
(2) uses a specific or specialized facility or equipment in association with the recreation activity;
(3) requires additional attention by staff, representatives or contractors of the Federal land management agency; or
(4) participates in an activity that involves more costs to the Federal land management agency than the costs associated with the basic recreation fee.
(b) LIMITATIONS ON FEES FOR CERTAIN PERSONS, ACTIVITIES, AND LOCATIONS- The Secretary concerned may not charge an expanded recreation fee with respect to any of the following:
(1) For general access to any Federal lands or waters under the jurisdiction of a Federal land management agency.
(2) For access to any of the following:
(A) A visitor center.
(B) A dispersed area with low or no investment.
(C) A scenic overlook.
(D) A basic, core interpretive program.
(E) A backcountry byway.
(F) A wayside.
(G) A drinking fountain.
(H) A restroom.
(I) An undeveloped parking area.
(J) an individual picnic table.
(3) For special attention or extra services necessary to meet the needs of individuals with disabilities.
(4) For any person engaged in a nonrecreational activity authorized under a valid permit issued under any other Act, including a valid grazing permit.
(c) FACILITIES AND SERVICES- In accordance with subsection (a), but subject to subsection (b), an expanded recreation fee may be charged for facilities and services, including any of the following:
(1) A developed campground.
(2) A developed boat ramp.
(3) A facility rental.
(4) An equipment rental.
(5) An enhanced interpretive program.
(6) A reservation service.
(7) A transportation service.
(8) A special amenity.
SEC. 7. SPECIAL RECREATION PERMIT FEE.
(a) FEE AUTHORIZED- The Secretary concerned may require a special recreation permit, and charge a special recreation permit fee, for a recreation use, including any of the following:
(1) A group activity.
(2) A commercial tour, including commercial aircraft tour.
(3) A recreation event.
(4) Use of a motorized recreation vehicle.
(5) A competitive event.
(6) An outfitting and guiding activity.
(7) An activity requiring an allocation of use.
(8) An activity for which a permit is required to ensure public safety.
(b) PROCEDURES AND GUIDELINES- If the Secretary concerned requires a special recreation permit for a recreation use, or charges a special recreation permit fee, the Secretary concerned shall establish procedures or guidelines to address the application and approval process for the special recreation permit and the special recreation permit fee levels.
SEC. 8. GENERAL RECREATION PASS AUTHORITY.
(a) EFFECT AND USE OF RECREATION PASSES- A recreation pass shall cover the basic recreation fee at any unit or area of a Federal land management agency that charges a basic recreation fee for the passholder and--
(1) all persons traveling with the passholder in a noncommercial motorized vehicle;
(2) up to three persons accompanying the passholder and traveling by means other than a motorized vehicle; or
(3) up to three persons accompanying the passholder at walk-up units or areas of a Federal land management agency.
(b) NONTRANSFERABLE- A recreation pass is nontransferable.
(c) CONSIDERATIONS- Before establishing and setting a price for a recreation pass, the Secretary concerned shall take into consideration the following:
(1) The considerations specified in section 4(c).
(2) The visitor services and recreation opportunities to be covered by the recreation pass.
(3) The price of, and impact on, other recreation passes.
(4) Visitor confusion with respect to other recreation passes.
(5) The impact on the incentive of a Federal land management agency to sell the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
(6) The impact on the overall collection of recreation fees authorized by this Act.
(7) The basic recreation fees charged at units or areas of the Federal land management agencies covered by the recreation pass and the impact of the recreation pass on those fees.
(d) PUBLIC NOTICE- The Secretaries shall jointly take such steps as may be necessary to provide to the public information on the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass and other available recreation passes.
SEC. 9. AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL--THE NATIONAL PARKS AND FEDERAL RECREATIONAL LANDS PASS.
(a) RECREATION PASS AUTHORIZED-
(1) AVAILABILITY AND USE- The Secretaries shall jointly establish, and may charge a fee for, an interagency national pass to be known as the `America the Beautiful--the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass', which shall cover the basic recreation fee at all units and areas of the Federal land management agencies for which a basic recreation fee is charged.
(2) IMAGE COMPETITION FOR RECREATION PASS- The Secretaries shall jointly hold an annual competition to select the image to be used on the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass for a year. The competition shall be--
(A) open to the public; and
(B) used as a means to educate the American people about units and areas of the Federal land management agencies.
(3) NOTICE OF ESTABLISHMENT- The Secretaries shall jointly publish a notice in the Federal Register when the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass is first established and available for purchase.
(b) DURATION- The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass shall be valid for a period of 12 months from the date of the issuance of the recreation pass to a passholder.
(c) PRICE- The Secretaries shall jointly establish the price at which the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass will be sold to the public.
(d) SALES LOCATIONS AND MARKETING-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary concerned shall sell the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass at all units or areas of the Federal land management agencies at which a basic recreation fee is charged and at such other locations as the Secretaries consider appropriate and feasible.
(2) USE OF VENDORS- The Secretary concerned may enter into cooperative agreements or contracts with private vendors to sell the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
(3) MARKETING- The Secretaries shall jointly take such actions as are appropriate to provide for the active marketing of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
(e) DISCOUNTED PASSES-
(1) AGE DISCOUNT- The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass shall be available, at a 50 percent discount, to any citizen of, or person domiciled in, the United States who is 62 years of age or older, provides adequate proof of age, and provides adequate proof of citizenship or residency.
(2) DISABILITY DISCOUNT- The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass shall be available, without charge, to any citizen of, or person domiciled in, the United States who has a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more of the person's major life activities, as required by section 7(20)(B)(i) of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (29 U.S.C. 701(20)(B)(i)), provides adequate documentation of the such disability, and provides adequate proof of citizenship or residency.
(f) ADMINISTRATIVE GUIDELINES- The Secretaries shall jointly issue guidelines on administration of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass, which shall include agreement on price, the distribution of revenues between the Federal land management agencies, the sharing of costs, benefits provided, marketing and design, adequate documentation for age and disability discounts, and the issuance of that recreation pass to volunteers. The Secretaries shall take into consideration all relevant visitor and sales data available in establishing the guidelines.
(g) DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION AGREEMENTS- The Secretaries may jointly enter into cooperative agreements with governmental and nongovernmental entities for the development and implementation of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass Program.
(h) PROHIBITION ON OTHER NATIONAL RECREATION PASSES- The Secretary concerned may not establish any national recreation pass, except as provided in this section.
SEC. 10. OTHER RECREATION PASSES.
(a) SITE-SPECIFIC AGENCY PASSES- The Secretary concerned may establish and charge a fee for a site-specific pass that will cover the basic recreation fee for a particular unit or area of a Federal land management agency for a specified period not to exceed 12 months.
(b) REGIONAL MULTIENTITY PASSES-
(1) PASSES AUTHORIZED- The Secretary concerned may establish and charge a fee for a regional multientity pass that will be accepted by one or more Federal land management agencies or by one or more governmental or nongovernmental entities for a specified period not to exceed 12 months. To include a Federal land management agency or governmental or nongovernmental entity over which the Secretary concerned does not have jurisdiction, the Secretary concerned shall obtain the consent of the head of such agency or entity.
(2) REGIONAL MULTIENTITY PASS AGREEMENT- In order to establish a regional multientity pass under this subsection, the Secretary concerned shall enter into a regional multientity pass agreement with all the participating agencies or entities on price, the distribution of revenues between participating agencies or entities, the sharing of costs, benefits provided, marketing and design, and the issuance of the pass to volunteers. The Secretary concerned shall take into consideration all relevant visitor and sales data available when entering into this agreement.
SEC. 11. MISCELLANEOUS ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS REGARDING RECREATION FEES AND RECREATION PASSES.
(a) NOTICE OF BASIC RECREATION FEES AND PASSES- The Secretary concerned shall post clear notice of the basic recreation fee and available recreation passes at appropriate locations in each unit or area of a Federal land management agency where a basic recreation fee is charged. The Secretary concerned shall include such notice in publications distributed at the unit or area.
(b) NOTICE OF RECREATION FEE PROJECTS- To the extent practicable, the Secretary concerned shall post clear notice of locations where work is performed using recreation fee or recreation pass revenues collected under this Act.
SEC. 12. VOLUNTEERS.
(a) AUTHORITY TO USE VOLUNTEERS- The Secretary concerned may use volunteers, as appropriate, to collect recreation fees and sell recreation passes.
(b) WAIVER OR DISCOUNT OF FEES; SITE-SPECIFIC AGENCY PASS- In exchange for volunteer services, the Secretary concerned may waive or discount a recreation fee that would otherwise apply to the volunteer or issue to the volunteer a site-specific agency pass authorized under section 10(a).
(c) NATIONAL PARKS AND FEDERAL RECREATIONAL LANDS PASS- In accordance with the guidelines issued under section 9(f), the Secretaries may jointly issue a National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass to a volunteer in exchange for significant volunteer services performed by the volunteer.
(d) REGIONAL MULTIENTITY PASSES- The Secretary concerned may issue a regional multientity pass authorized under section 10(b) to a volunteer in exchange for significant volunteer services performed by the volunteer, if the regional multientity pass agreement under which the regional multientity pass was established provides for the issuance of the pass to volunteers.
SEC. 13. SPECIAL ACCOUNTS AND DISTRIBUTION OF RECREATION FEES AND RECREATION PASS REVENUES.
(a) SPECIAL ACCOUNT- The Secretary of the Treasury shall establish a special account in the Treasury for each Federal land management agency.
(b) DEPOSITS- Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e), revenues collected by each Federal land management agency under this Act shall--
(1) be deposited in its special account; and
(2) remain available for expenditure, without further appropriation, until expended.
(c) DISTRIBUTION OF RECREATION FEES AND SINGLE-SITE AGENCY PASS REVENUES-
(1) LOCAL DISTRIBUTION OF FUNDS-
(A) RETENTION OF REVENUES- Not less than 80 percent of the recreation fees and site-specific agency pass revenues collected at a specific unit or area of a Federal land management agency shall remain available for expenditure, without further appropriation, until expended at that unit or area.
(B) REDUCTION- The Secretary concerned may reduce the percentage allocation otherwise applicable under subparagraph (A) to a unit or area of a Federal land management agency, but not below 60 percent, for a fiscal year if the Secretary concerned determines that the revenues collected at the unit or area exceed the reasonable needs of the unit or area for which expenditures may be made under section 14 for that fiscal year.
(2) AGENCY-WIDE DISTRIBUTION OF FUNDS- The balance of the recreation fees and site-specific agency pass revenues collected at a specific unit or area of a Federal land management and not distributed in accordance with paragraph (1) shall remain available to that Federal land management agency for expenditure on an agency-wide basis, without further appropriation, until expended.
(d) DISTRIBUTION OF NATIONAL PARKS AND FEDERAL RECREATIONAL LANDS PASS REVENUES- Revenues collected from the sale of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass shall be deposited in the special accounts established for the Federal land management agencies in accordance with the guidelines issued under section 9(f).
(e) DISTRIBUTION OF REGIONAL MULTIENTITY PASS REVENUES- Revenues collected from the sale of a regional multientity pass authorized under section 10(b) shall be deposited in each participating Federal land management agency's special account in accordance with the terms of the multientity agreement for the regional multientity pass.
SEC. 14. EXPENDITURES FROM SPECIAL ACCOUNTS.
(a) TRANSFER AND USE OF FUNDS- On request of the Secretary concerned, the Secretary of the Treasury shall transfer to the Secretary concerned from the special account for a Federal land management agency such amounts as the Secretary concerned considers necessary and appropriate. The Secretary concerned shall accept and use the transferred amounts in accordance with this section.
(b) USE OF FEES AT SPECIFIC UNIT OR AREA-
(1) AUTHORIZED USES- Amounts available under section 13(c)(1) for expenditure at a specific unit or area of a Federal land management agency may be used for the following purposes:
(A) Backlogged repair and maintenance projects, including projects relating to health and safety, and other maintenance.
(B) Interpretation and signage.
(C) Habitat or facility enhancement.
(D) Resource preservation.
(E) Law enforcement related to public use.
(F) Bonding of volunteers.
(G) Direct operating or capital costs associated with the imposition and collection of recreation fees and the issuance of recreation passes.
(2) SEPARATE ACCOUNTING- Amounts available under section 13(c)(1) for expenditure at a specific unit or area of a Federal land management agency shall be accounted for separately from amounts available under section 13(c)(2).
(c) USE OF FEES AGENCY-WIDE- Amounts available under section 13(c)(2) to a Federal land management agency for expenditure agency-wide may be used for the purposes described in subsection (b)(1) at units or areas selected by the Federal land management agency.
(d) USE OF FEES FOR RECREATION PASS PROGRAMS-
(1) ADMINISTRATION AND MARKETING COSTS- Not more than 15 percent of the revenues collected from the sale of a recreation pass may be used to fund administration and marketing costs associated with that recreation pass.
(2) TRANSITIONAL EXCEPTION- Notwithstanding any other provisions of this Act, the Secretary concerned may use amounts available in the special account of a Federal land management agency to supplement administration and marketing costs associated with--
(A) the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass during the five-year period beginning on the date the joint guidelines are issued under section 9(f); and
(B) a regional multientity pass authorized under section 10(b) during the five-year period beginning on the date the regional multientity pass agreement for that recreation pass takes effect.
SEC. 15. ENFORCEMENT AND PROTECTION OF RECEIPTS.
(a) ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY- The Secretary concerned shall enforce payment of the fees authorized by this Act.
(b) EVIDENCE OF NONPAYMENT- If the display of proof of payment of a recreation fee, or the payment of a recreation fee within a certain time period is required, failure to display such proof as required or to pay the recreation fee within the time period specified shall be considered prima facia evidence of nonpayment.
(c) JOINT LIABILITY- The registered owner and any occupant of a vehicle charged with a nonpayment violation involving the vehicle shall be jointly liable for penalties imposed under this section, unless the registered owner can show that the vehicle was used without the registered owner's express or implied permission.
(d) PENALTIES- Failure to pay a required recreation fee shall be punishable as a Class B misdemeanor.
(e) THEFT OF FEES-
(1) IN GENERAL- It is unlawful to break into forcibly, to attempt to break into forcibly, or to tamper with any device used to collect or store recreation fees, or any structure used in whole or in part to collect or store fees, with intent to commit larceny.
(2) PENALTIES- Any violation under paragraph (1) involving a loss to the United States of less than $1,000 shall be punishable as a Class B misdemeanor. Any violation under paragraph (1) involving a loss to the United States of $1,000 or more, but less than $5,000, shall be punishable as a Class A misdemeanor. Any violation under paragraph (1) involving a loss to the United States of $5,000 or more shall be punishable as a Class D felony.
SEC. 16. REPEAL OF SUPERSEDED ADMISSION AND USE FEE AUTHORITIES.
(a) LAND AND WATER CONSERVATION FUND ACT- Section 4 of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 (16 U.S.C. 460l-6a) is repealed, except that the Secretary concerned may continue to issue Golden Eagle Passports, Golden Age Passports, and Golden Access Passports under such section until the date the notice required by section 9(a)(3) is published in the Federal Register regarding the establishment of the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass.
(b) RECREATIONAL FEE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM- Section 315 of the Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1996 (as contained in section 101(c) of Public Law 104-134; 16 U.S.C. 460l-6a), is repealed.
(c) ADMISSION PERMITS FOR REFUGE UNITS- Section 201 of the Emergency Wetlands Resources Act of 1986 (16 U.S.C. 3911) is repealed.
(d) NATIONAL PARK PASSPORT, GOLDEN EAGLE PASSPORT, GOLDEN AGE PASSPORT, AND GOLDEN ACCESS PASSPORT- Effective on the date the notice required by section 9(a)(3) is published in the Federal Register, the following provisions of law authorizing the establishment of a national park passport program or the establishment and sale of a national park passport, Golden Eagle Passport, Golden Age Passport, or Golden Access Passport are repealed:
(1) Section 502 of the National Parks Omnibus Management Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-391; 16 U.S.C. 5982).
(2) Title VI of the National Parks Omnibus Management Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-391; 16 U.S.C. 5991-5995).
(e) EFFECT ON EXISTING PASSPORTS AND PERMITS-
(1) EXISTING PASSPORTS- A passport issued under section 4 of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 (16 U.S.C. 460l-6a) or title VI of the National Parks Omnibus Management Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-391; 16 U.S.C. 5991-5995) that was valid on the day before the publication of the Federal Register notice required under section 9(a)(3) shall be valid in accordance with the terms agreed to at the time of issuance of the passport, to the extent practicable, and remain in effect until expired, lost, or stolen.
(2) PERMITS- A permit issued under section 4 of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 that was valid on the day before the date of the enactment of this Act shall be valid and remain in effect until expired, revoked, or suspended.
(f) TREATMENT OF UNOBLIGATED FUNDS-
(1) LAND AND WATER CONSERVATION FUND SPECIAL ACCOUNTS- Amounts in the special accounts established under section 4(i)(1) of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 (16 U.S.C. 460l-6a(i)(1)) for Federal land management agencies that are unobligated on the date of the enactment of this Act shall be transferred to the appropriate special account established under section 13 and shall be available to the Secretary concerned in accordance with this Act. A special account established under section 4(i)(1) of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 for a Federal agency that is not a Federal land management area, and the use of such special account, is not affected by the repeal of section 4 of the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965 by subsection (a).
(2) NATIONAL PARKS PASSPORT- Any funds collected under title VI of the National Parks Omnibus Management Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-391; 16 U.S.C. 5991-5995) that are unobligated on the day before the publication of the Federal Register notice required under section 9(a)(3) shall be transferred to the special account of the National Park Service for use in accordance with this Act. The Secretary of the Interior may use amounts available in that special account to pay any outstanding administration, marketing, or close-out costs associated with the national parks passport.
(3) RECREATIONAL FEE DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM- Any funds collected in accordance with section 315 of the Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1996 (as contained in section 101(c) of Public Law 104-134; 16 U.S.C. 460l-6a), that are unobligated on the day before the date of the enactment of this Act shall be transferred to the appropriate special account and shall be available to the Secretary concerned in accordance with this Act.
(4) ADMISSION PERMITS FOR REFUGE UNITS- Any funds collected in accordance with section 201 of the Emergency Wetlands Resources Act of 1986 (16 U.S.C. 3911) that are available as provided in subsection (c)(A) of such section and are unobligated on the day before the date of the enactment of this Act shall be transferred to the special account of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service for use in accordance with this Act.
(g) EFFECT OF REGULATIONS- A regulation or policy issued under a provision of law repealed by this section shall remain in effect to the extent such a regulation or policy is consistent with the provisions of this Act until the Secretary concerned issues a regulation, guideline, or policy under this Act that supersedes the earlier regulation.
SEC. 17. RELATION TO OTHER LAWS AND FEE COLLECTION AUTHORITIES.
(a) FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS UNAFFECTED- Nothing in this Act shall authorize Federal hunting or fishing licenses or fees or charges for commercial or other activities not related to recreation, affect any rights or authority of the States with respect to fish and wildlife, or repeal or modify any provision of law that permits States or political subdivisions of States to share in the revenues from Federal lands or, except as provided in section 16, any provision of law that provides that any fees or charges collected at particular Federal areas be used for or credited to specific purposes or special funds as authorized by that provision of law.
(b) RELATION TO REVENUE ALLOCATION LAWS- Amounts collected under this Act may not be taken into account for the purposes of any of the following laws:
(1) The sixth paragraph under the heading `FOREST SERVICE' in the Act of May 23, 1908 (16 U.S.C. 500).
(2) Section 13 of the Act of March 1, 1911 (16 U.S.C. 500; commonly known as the Weeks Act).
(3) The fourteenth paragraph under the heading `FOREST SERVICE' in the Act of March 4, 1913 (16 U.S.C. 501).
(4) Section 33 of the Bankhead-Jones Farm Tenant Act (7 U.S.C. 1012).
(5) Title II of the Act of August 8, 1937, and the Act of May 24, 1939 (43 U.S.C. 1181f et seq.).
(6) Section 6 of the Act of June 14, 1926 (43 U.S.C. 869-4).
(7) Chapter 69 of title 31, United States Code.
(8) Section 401 of the Act of June 15, 1935 (16 U.S.C. 715s; commonly known as the Refuge Revenue Sharing Act).
(9) The Secure Rural Schools and Community Self-Determination Act of 2000 (Public Law 106-393; 16 U.S.C. 500 note).
(10) Section 2 of the Boulder Canyon Project Adjustment Act (43 U.S.C. 618a).
(11) The Federal Water Project Recreation Act (16 U.S.C. 460l-12 et seq.).
(12) The first section of the Act of June 17, 1902, as amended or supplemented (43 U.S.C. 391).
(13) The Act of February 25, 1920 (30 U.S.C. 181 et seq.; commonly known as the Mineral Leasing Act).
(14) Section 4(e) of the Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-263; 31 U.S.C. 6901 note).
(15) Section 5(a) of the Lincoln County Land Act of 2000 (Public Law 106-298; 114 Stat. 1047).
(16) Any other provision of law relating to revenue allocation.
(c) CONSIDERATION OF OTHER FUNDS COLLECTED- Amounts collected under any other law may not be disbursed under this Act.
(d) SOLE RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY- Recreation fees charged under this Act shall be in lieu of fees charged for the same purposes under any other provision of law.
(e) FEES CHARGED BY THIRD PARTIES- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, a third party may charge a fee for providing a good or service to a visitor of a unit or area of the Federal land management agencies in accordance with any other applicable law or regulation.
(f) MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING STAMP ACT- Revenues from the stamp established under the Act of March 16, 1934 (16 U.S.C. 718 et seq.; commonly known as the Migratory Bird Hunting Stamp Act or Duck Stamp Act ), shall not be covered by this Act.
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verticalclimb
Dec 7, 2004, 8:27 PM
Post #44 of 73
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Registered: May 16, 2003
Posts: 34
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In reply to: In reply to: Thanks for bringing some level-headed-ness back to the discussion. As an politically active person, I can't stand meetings and comments that have so much emotion built into an argument that you lose focus on the matter at hand. To the OP, how about stating some facts and analyzing them against current conditions. Then I will be happy to call my representatives. But I refuse to bother them with a "whining" session. You missed some very good and level headed comments. You also missed the date to respond. I guess your political activity is passive rather than pro-active.
Actually I didn't. I quoted the one I did because I liked the comment. As for the timeliness of the comment, I think my point in general is about how to compile an argument and get me to act on the argument as opposed to acting on this particular issue.
And thanks to our wonderful Bill of Rights....Flame On!!!!!
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gds
Dec 7, 2004, 8:51 PM
Post #45 of 73
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Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 710
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In reply to: I think my point in general is about how to compile an argument and get me to act on the argument as opposed to acting on this particular issue.
There is plenty of room for debate on how to best provide upkeep and new facilities for recreational use. I understand that these have costs. It's just that the fee demo - to my mind did a poor job of both allocating the costs in an equitable manner and of providing higher levels of service to recreational users. So it seems to me it's a lose/lose--hardly a place you want to go.
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sharpender
Dec 8, 2004, 6:20 AM
Post #46 of 73
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Registered: Apr 15, 2003
Posts: 663
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Couple three things. Google "Adventure Pass" and you will find a ton of things about and groups opposed to the fee demo as one poster noted. For all of it's history it has been a "voluntary" program and not one person had to ever pay the fee or buy a pass. It was beaten in the courts here in Southern Cal to where they were no longer trying to enforce it.
SOme of the opposition groups have pointed out that there is a lobby organization behind the fee program that is backed by corps like Disney and that the end goal is the Disneyfication of National Forests for profit. Meanwhile mining and logging interests get permits for pennies to exploit the forests.
This new expanded version is quite simply the exact kind of governmental behavior our fore fathers revolted against in founding this country.
There is no such thing as a "National Recreation Area".
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karlbaba
Dec 8, 2004, 6:53 AM
Post #47 of 73
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Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
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The problem with user fees is that
1. They often cost almost as much to collect as they bring in.
2. They create an incentive for park to engage in construction and development.
3. That leads to ever more spiraling fees as "improved" facilities demand higher fees and administration begins to bloat with the power to finance themselves with little checks and balances.
But we're going to get this very scenario unless we raise a stink cause folks don't quite apply the taboo on user fees than the dreaded "taxes". The philosophy of "privatization" is strong with this administration and the parks are a perfect target for it. Look for more private company's running campgrounds, collecting parking fees, and so on.
Only political resistance to this system will prevent a revolution in how public land is financed. Hello Disneyland.
The lure of user fees allows the present government to have it all, commercial development, added jobs, and no new IRS collected taxes. It's not a "progressive" tax either, so the wealthier folks with influence and power don't feel it, and it even keeps out the riff-raff.
Unfortunately for me, I'm riff-raff. I feel the pain of the fees, and I also disapprove of the theme park improvements and supervised atmophere that they pay for. My two weeks in Josh went from $10 to $90 in just a few years.
And one of the scariest things about these user fees is that the folks who get the money are also the ones who decide how much to collect. Can you imagine if the welfare administration got to decide how much to tax you for the programs they wished to provide?
The first principle of government budgeting is to spend every dime of your budget, because you need the make the case that you need that much money for the following year. Now, even the budget won't be a ceiling for spending. The final budget constraint boils down to how much they can charge us before we stop coming and revenue goes down from lack of demand.
Unless we care to be squeeky wheels. There is nothing else holding back the train, and we're camping in the tracks.
Peace
karl
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grigriese
Dec 8, 2004, 8:11 AM
Post #48 of 73
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 292
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Currently if you display a valid National Parks Pass you do not need an Adventure Pass. Will this change with the proposed plan?
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thegreytradster
Dec 8, 2004, 3:30 PM
Post #49 of 73
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Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 2151
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In reply to: Currently if you display a valid National Parks Pass you do not need an Adventure Pass. Will this change with the proposed plan?
The suplimental appropriations bill hasn't been voted on yet with the uproar over the Inteligence bill. Any comments are still worth giving a shot!
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redbullclimbing
Dec 8, 2004, 11:25 PM
Post #50 of 73
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Registered: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 47
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So did it pass in the house?
Cuz if it did I want to find out who to call in senate.
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