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clmbnski


Jun 10, 2002, 5:00 AM
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I just bought some 9/16 inch webbing (climbing spec) and made a bunch of 2 foot runners. But then I read on fish products tech weenies pgs
http://www.fishproducts.com/tech/techweenie.htmlthat 9/16 inch webbing really isnt very strong and one should be hesitent to use it. On rei's website they recommend using the webbing for tying runners. What does you guys think?


bmgard


Jun 10, 2002, 5:30 AM
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I like 1 inch webbing. I don't think 9/16 is strong enough. But don't worry you'll be able to use the webbing for lots of other stuff.


benfieldj


Jun 10, 2002, 2:58 PM
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I have used 9/16 for many years without a problem.


howitzer


Jun 10, 2002, 4:14 PM
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I use 1 inch webbing as well, to set up anchors etc. Considering its about twice as strong as 9/16, I think it's worth it. Although the 9/16 holds loads up to about 1500-2400 lbs., I don't think you should panic about using the 9/16 for some anchors. But I'll still stick to my 1 inch tubular... Just my $0.02
- great link by the way! Some good info in there that address many issues seen on this site about rope retirement, force factors, rap knots, etc. Read that page!!!

edit: oh yeah, I agree with rand - sewn runners work great for extending anchors or pro - much better than tying runners.

[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-06-10 10:32 ]


radistrad


Jun 10, 2002, 4:44 PM
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if your buying runners to extend your clip in point opn your pro, I would skip the tied runners alltogeather and buy the expensive sewn runners. The sewn runners are strong (23Kn), light and they dont have a knot get snagged.

As far as the 9/16 or the 1", I say buy the 1" tubular webbing, or be redundant with the 9/16".


stevematthys


Jun 10, 2002, 5:18 PM
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i use 1 inch webbing


rickoldskool


Jun 11, 2002, 7:19 AM
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UH, pardon me, but it seems that the obvious has been over looked. 9/16' works, 1" is overkill. Any tied slings I carry are 11/16" tubular or "supertape". I carry approx. 6 slings when I climb(trad), mostly sewn. I only use tied slings when I may need "leavers" for rapping or replacing rap slings. The only time I use 1" any more is for TRs, because it's durable.


rickoldskool


Jun 11, 2002, 4:54 PM
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Quote:Strength of knotted runners

Another test from the Black Diamond test lab. Since we tested tacked
supertape and tacked spectra runners girth hitched together, and found them
to be 70% as strong as a single tacked runner, I was curious as to how strong
a tied Supertape runner is. So I took the same spool of 11/16" nylon
Supertape and tied up some runners using a well-dressed water knot.

3-19-99 TD 14787
Results: ( all values in lbf )

3798, 4067, 4423, 4585, 3988. All broke where the web enters the knot.
AVG = 4172
Compare to the Tacked runners in the same material ( TD 14742):
AVG = 5713
Results: 1. Tied Nylon Runners tested on average 73% of the strength of a
sewn runner in the same material. 2. Variance in a tied runner is pretty
high. The rating of the tied runner is only 57% of the rating of the tacked
runner.

Conclusions: 1.You lose a lot when using a tied runner. About the same loss
as when girth hitching them together to make them longer. 2.The tied runner
variance is pretty high. The knot 'system' is not a consistent system.

My Personal Opinions:
1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've been
using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
2.I would be careful about tying runners out of low-strength materials like
9/16" supertape. Yeah, we thought they were strong. But they are not that
strong.

Tom Jones
BDEL Harness guy
tom@bdel.com BBCode Quote End -->

FYI- I pulled this from the FISH even though you have the link. REI is full of sh!t.
I never go near those guys anymore. Who would you trust your life to, real climbers doing the tests, or a glorified clothing store!



[ This Message was edited by: rickoldskool on 2002-06-11 10:05 ]


climber1


Jun 11, 2002, 7:53 PM
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if your worried aboutthe 9/16" webbing, just double it. I've climbed with 9/16 runners and have never had a problem. I agree 1" webbing is better for top roping anchors.


bradhill


Jun 11, 2002, 8:59 PM
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Be sure you know what kind of webbing you're using and what it's rated for! The width alone does not tell you enough. Heavy flat webbing is stronger than tubular webbing. Tubular webbing also seems like it would cut much more easily and lose general integrity when cut faster than heavy flat webbing, which might make the rated strength over an edge quite a bit less than in a pull test using a biner.


I wouldn't use 9/16" tubular webbing for anchor slings. I do use similar size heavy flat webbing.

[ This Message was edited by: bradhill on 2002-06-11 14:08 ]


dustinap
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Jun 11, 2002, 9:16 PM
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Why don't people use 7 or 8 mil cord for runners?


blindslap


Jun 20, 2002, 7:50 PM
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Using cord to make runners gets pretty heavy and bulkey. The cord is almost twice the weight of webbing and then you also have a big bulky triple fishermans knot that can get stuck on everything. Cord is strong but in my opinion not worth the hassle.


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