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quietmonk
Feb 2, 2005, 6:35 AM
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I was climbing in South Platte last weekend, and I took a short twelve foot fall near the top of the pitch. To my suprise, my new silver alien ripped apart. The cable that is connected to the top part of the cam totally ripped out of place, and the small cables going the cams pulled apart. Needless to say, the placement failed and I fell to my next piece (thankfully, it was only a few feet below!).
Has anyone else had this happen?
Are aliens CE certified?
Are there any recalls?
I'm never going to climb on the damn things again...TCU's & Zeros forever!
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philbox
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Feb 2, 2005, 6:42 AM
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Instead of whingeing here on rc you should pack the item up and send it back to the manufacturer via registered post with a full explanation of the circumstances of the failure. After that I would expect them to commit to some sort of action for you. This site would be most indebted to you if you reported back to us how well they treated you.
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kcrag
Feb 2, 2005, 7:09 AM
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sounds like a case that you could hire a 1-900 lawyer for....
hey, i just bought a new GREY alien (7/8). it has a little tag that says it's 'UIAA and CE tested and approved', whatever that means!. i haven't taken a leader fall on it yet. have any pictures of your post-mortum twisted gear?
as for my other 7 aliens... i trust them wholeheartedly and they have served me well.
-k.
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pbcowboy77
Feb 2, 2005, 7:31 AM
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My Fat ass took a 25 footer on a green and it didn't shatter into a million peices. So what did you do to it, Did you drop the peice from 30 feet, did you smash it with a hammer, or did you make fun of it being the new cam to the bunch and stick your tounge out at it...
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healyje
Feb 2, 2005, 8:09 AM
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That's a pretty strong and imflammatory thread title you've got going there. Not to say a badly assembled piece can't get through manufacturing - they can. But you don't give any details of the placement. Was it good and solid? Did it walk to too wide a spot and blow the cams back? Was it actually in uncammed like a stopper? Details and a picture please...
And as was said, ship it back to CCH with a detailed description of the incident and don't leave anything out. Again, it could be a badly manufactured piece that got out, but it's hard to tell from what little you're leaving us to go on here.
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josephgdawson
Feb 2, 2005, 8:11 AM
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Calling the original post whining is absurd. I am glad he posted it.
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peroxide
Feb 2, 2005, 9:38 AM
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Before you send it to CCH etc.
Do all of us here a favor by doing just one thing:
SHOW US SOME PHOTOS.
You will get all the engineers out of the woodwork (like myself) to analyze the cam as best as possible in this wacky internet medium.
Show the point of failure from several angles and any macro closeups of the metal in strong light would be great.
I definitely need to see a photo since I have never heard of this happening.
Cheers,
P
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wormly81
Feb 2, 2005, 12:06 PM
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CCH aliens are dangerous. Once youve bought one your going to buy more.....
While I may be terribly wrong, what you describe sounds suspect. The small cables going to the cams are not load bearing. Unlike a BD cam that can be used in a passive manner, the smaller aliens have no cam stops or similar method for limiting cam travel.
I would definitely get in touch with CCH, I am positive that they are more concerned about this than anyone else. Also keep in mind that hundreds of leader falls were caught by aliens in the last year and undoubtedly there are people who swear that "this alien saved my life".
Interesting though,
Jeff
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kyhangdog
Feb 2, 2005, 12:06 PM
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This is the second time I've heard of an Alien failing. The first was posted on this site, I believe, and occurred in Australia. Anyone know of Metolius TCU failures?
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gunkjunkie
Feb 2, 2005, 1:57 PM
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The gear failure you were referring to seemed to be pilot error, rather than a failure of the gear. I believe the accident you were referring to was the young woman who placed a black alien in a crack that was just a little bit too large and the peice pulled when she fell (There is a detailed report on the incident in the site archives somewhere.). The placements of the smaller aliens (blue and black and green) need to be made correctly and inspected.
I have led trad routes for 3 seasons and my husband has led trad routes for 8 seasons and neither of us have ever had an alien fail or pull.
Without more information (photos and a detailed incident report) about the original poster's accident and alleged gear failure - I would assume the problem is with how the gear was placed - not with the piece itself.
Deirdre
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glyrocks
Feb 2, 2005, 1:57 PM
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I had the cable on an Alien pull off a cam when I took a 15 foot fall on it. It was placed rather shallow, so I don't understand why. I would expect a shallow placement to just pop out, not break. I suspect the shallow placement part isn't causative; breaking had something to do with some other characteristic of the placement.
(edit: typo police)
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hello_heino
Feb 2, 2005, 2:05 PM
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All climbing gear is dangerous. Perhaps you should take up reading, but I have heard that people sometimes get paper cuts....
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jammer
Feb 2, 2005, 2:14 PM
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In reply to: I was climbing in South Platte last weekend, and I took a short twelve foot fall near the top of the pitch. To my suprise, my new silver alien ripped apart. The cable that is connected to the top part of the cam totally ripped out of place, and the small cables going the cams pulled apart. Needless to say, the placement failed and I fell to my next piece (thankfully, it was only a few feet below!). Has anyone else had this happen? Are aliens CE certified? Are there any recalls? I'm never going to climb on the damn things again...TCU's & Zeros forever!
If you don't want to climb on them any more, what do you have left for gear and what will you be asking for them?
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fire_eyes
Feb 2, 2005, 2:40 PM
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You know, common sense isn't so common anymore. Hold an alien cam and a BD C4 in your two hands. Look 'em over good. Then, cam and uncam them. See what you think about the differences you notice.
I noticed that the friggin alien looked like my dumb, red-neck uncle Buck built it in his garage workshop, while the C4 actually looks like something you'd feel safer climbing with. I also noticed that in the smaller sizes (the ones everyone seems to like so much) that the cam wire (that's right, just one for each side...not independant controls for all 4) can slide so far that you can over cam the thing with your hand. Ugh.
Just yesterday I returned the 5 aliens I bought at REI and exchanged them for 7 (more) new C4 Camalots.
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buckyllama
Feb 2, 2005, 2:51 PM
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In reply to: You know, common sense isn't so common anymore. Hold an alien cam and a BD C4 in your two hands. Look 'em over good. Then, cam and uncam them. See what you think about the differences you notice. I noticed that the friggin alien looked like my dumb, red-neck uncle Buck built it in his garage workshop, while the C4 actually looks like something you'd feel saf er climbing with. I also noticed that in the smaller sizes (the ones everyone seems to like so much) that the cam wire (that's right, just one for each side...not independant controls for all 4) can slide so far that you can over cam the thing with your hand. Ugh. Just yesterday I returned the 5 aliens I bought at REI and exchanged them for 7 (more) new C4 Camalots.
Strawman
Just because something looks crude doesn't mean that it functions poorly. And just because something is polished and annodized and has all sorts of lovely molded plastic bits doesn't mean it functions well. Aliens are very sophisticated little numbers with their concealed springs allowing a narrower head and sleeve triggers allowing a more flexable cable. They aren't annodized but, since that serves no purpose anyway, who cares?
As to the original poster's problem; I agree, take a lot of good pictures and post em up. Then send the unit back to the manuf. It's entirely possible that it was a manufacturing error. It's entirely possible that it was a freak chance or user error. Without more data no one will ever know.
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fire_eyes
Feb 2, 2005, 3:05 PM
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concealed springs? When was the last time you looked at your alien? On the red one I am holding in my hand (yep, I still have one more to get rid of) those springs hang partially out of the slit in each cam that runs to the axel. Partly concealed. Oh, and the wire which does cam the alien, is about 1/2 the diameter of the wire which cams the BD C4. And, it is not close welded. Just bent after the insertion point.
Just my opinion and observation. Take it or don't. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong.
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cedk
Feb 2, 2005, 3:06 PM
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I would like to second Bucky. Fire_eyes: you couldn't be more wrong. When you say something that stupid it really compromises your credibility.
Thanks also for abusing REI's policy and helping to kick up the price on all merchandise in that store.
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fire_eyes
Feb 2, 2005, 3:11 PM
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It's also a matter of trusting your gear, that's all. I didn't proport to be an expert, or to say that all aliens don't work and no one should climb on them. I said I don't like them, and I said why.
If that compromises my credibility, then fine.
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cedk
Feb 2, 2005, 3:12 PM
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The smart thing to do would be to keep that red alien on your rack. In a shallow crack it's way better than the pretty purple camalot you replaced it with.
Some day you'll understand this.
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vegastradguy
Feb 2, 2005, 3:12 PM
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actually, have a closer look at your C4's. you'll note that, like the Aliens, they have one wire controlling two cams- they just hide it better than the Aliens do.
the springs are not concealed, they're internal. this allows them to fit into smaller placements (they will go in a pin-scar where a BD cannot). yes, they do stick out a bit, but that doesnt mean anything.
finally, the wire that cams the alien isnt load bearing, it only has to pull the cam back. (also notice how that trigger works- its what allows you to use an alien in a shallow placement where a BD won't go....) [you should also note that one of BD's famous problems is their trigger wires.....]
below the #0.5 camalot, Aliens are a staple of my rack- i prefer them over any other small cam. however, this is not to say they are better- it just says i think they're better.
as for the OP- it sounds like the trigger sheath blew- which would, of course, blow out the trigger wires as well. of course, this is pure speculation drawn from not a whole hell of a lot of information. if the main cable blew- i would never expect the trigger wires to hold...
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nthusiastj
Feb 2, 2005, 3:25 PM
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You should send the rest of your aliens to me for "research". Since you don't want them.
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boadman
Feb 2, 2005, 3:30 PM
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After having worked at CCH for a summer, I would be a little leary of climbing on any aliens that I hadn't made myself. The holding power of the unit depends solely on the quality of the weld between the cable and the piece that holds the axle. Welding is more of an art than a science, and while David Waggoner is a very competent machinist and designer, a lot of his employees are pretty suspect. I would have more confidence in my redneck uncle Randy. However, the design of the cam (outside of the manufacturing) is by far the best of any small cam on the market. The new WC zeros come close, but don't quite make it.
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quietmonk
Feb 2, 2005, 3:57 PM
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The weld was exactly what broke! The placement was perfect. I'll borrow a camera asap so you guys can see the cam. Boadman, you are scaring me!
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angry
Feb 2, 2005, 4:05 PM
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I used to spend my time defending aliens. I don't anymore, I just know that they are superior to anything on the market in green through orange.
If the weld truly broke, Dave will make it right. Those boys rebuilt a red that I effed up just last week for free. They reslung a clear that I had scuffed the sling to threadbare for $4. I've seen them tested and they are bomber.
I've whipped hard on the black, I've got a buddie who took an 80 footer on a red. You got unlucky.
Spend your money on whatever you want, don't slander a good company based on your little experience.
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CCH aliens are dangerous!
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