I have a narrow foot and found that these were the best fit after many, many tries at similar models in other brands. My Phantoms stretched about one size. For fine edges and smearing on Sydney sandstone I find them good all-rounders. I use them for both trad and sport although the longer routes do test my pain threshold.

I agree that the ubber is fairly average, but these are the most comfortable climbing shoes I have ever worn.

Shitty ass ruber,it also grows two sizes when climbing in 90 degree weather

of all the shoes sold at stores in LA and Orange County, Pacific Edge up at Santa Cruz, Nomad Ventures and the shoe demos at JTree and the local gym, this one fits the shape of my feet the best. the Mythos do too, but the Phantom has a stiffer last, hence better edging. plus, goes great with bright orange shirts. after many JTree weekends and a resole, my first pair met a grisly fate on Big Guy out at Indian Creek. the full blown offwidth grunt fest destroyed the orange lace straps and shredded one lace and tore a small hole on the side wide open. the Phantom can handle some trad, but not really design to thrash around like that. got a second pair one size smaller, as my sport shoes