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zoratao
May 16, 2005, 5:38 PM
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Wow, I am surprised to see how uptight people can get over nothing. No one knows the outcome of climbing and route, if access will be granted or not, if it will be the new Mecca of climbing in Arkansas, whatev. Anyway, the point is someone did something of note. Getting your panties bound makes no difference. You can't change the past, you can't predict the future, and you can only behave in the best possible way.
Ownership of anything except your rack seems at least a bit contentious to most climbers anyways. Right now it is neither legal nor illegal unless the owner of the property posts "No trespassing" signs and/or runs people of his property. The precedent lies with the owner of the land. (period) If people are respectful (hmmm, might that in this case be synonymous with "covert") then it will never be an issue. But, from the tone of this little flame I suspect that respect is not really possible.
The best way to teach ethics is to behave ethically and keep your mouth shut when the shuttin' is appropriate. Regards.
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tradman
May 18, 2005, 1:33 PM
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Yup.
It's a storm in a teacup. After all, Sharma's track record would indicate that the problem will simply be downgraded when someone comes along and flashes the first repeat.
All we need to do is wait for that to happen.
:lol:
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fiend
May 18, 2005, 2:00 PM
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In reply to: ...Sharma's track record would indicate that the problem will simply be downgraded when someone comes along and flashes the first repeat.
I'm on it!
I just need someone to add it to the routes section so I can go find it. And I probably won't downgrade it because I need it to keep my www.8a.nu ticklist score high.
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fitzontherocks
May 18, 2005, 2:05 PM
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<"After all, Sharma's track record would indicate that the problem will simply be downgraded when someone comes along and flashes the first repeat. ">
Bitter... party of one?
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tradman
May 18, 2005, 2:24 PM
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Not really.
Happened before, hasn't it?
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fitzontherocks
May 18, 2005, 2:36 PM
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You go right ahead and put that young turk in his place. G'wan. You can do it... Can't you?
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tradman
May 18, 2005, 2:44 PM
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Not at all, he's a fine climber.
As long as folks like so many who post here continue to worship him and to squeal shrilly any time someone questions his activities, his position as the Anna Kournikova of the climbing world will be assured.
:wink:
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fitzontherocks
May 18, 2005, 2:57 PM
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The only being I worship is not of this earth.
As for your comparison, Sharma has actually accomplished something. AK has never won a major tournament (like I care about her RECORD!?).
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fitzontherocks
May 18, 2005, 3:29 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, fiend. I should have figured that out for myself. I'm going back to work now.
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tradman
May 18, 2005, 4:10 PM
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It's little wonder you don't recognise what I'm doing here fiend, unfamiliar as you are with it: this is called "having an opinion".
Okay, you got stung when I did run a troll on this subject and you're upset. We can understand that, and we feel sorry for you still crying about it after so many weeks. Perhaps you should grow up and stop squealing like a baby.
On the subject at hand, I'd argue that the comparison between sharma and kournikova is actually rather apt - both are good looking and have been touted and hyped as the greatest exponent of their sport who has ever lived, and yet have been mysteriously handed their asses when the actual playing is done.
Both are really no slouch at their sport - but neither is the best by any stretch of the imagination, living instead on marketing and hype.
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dan4183
May 18, 2005, 4:58 PM
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Dude, i dont know how much tennis you watch but nobody has ever touted Kournikova as anything other than eye-candy. She has never won a slam and has never been considered one of the top players. She got to the semis in Wimbledon '97 and was in an enrique Iglesias video and thats about it. Sharma on the other hand, established arguably the first consensus 15 and is unquestionably one of the strongest boulderers. I also find it interesting how you claim Sharma gets his ass handed to him when the playing starts. Hmmm. Seems like whenever he does make the effort to show up for a comp, he wins fairly easily and some amazing climbers have flailed on his testpieces. I have come to expect this ridiculousness from you, but keep it coming. As much as you enjoy baiting people i also enjoy busting your ass. 8^)
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fitzontherocks
May 18, 2005, 6:34 PM
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Did I say I was going back to work? I may just have to stay tuned now.
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tradman
May 19, 2005, 8:14 AM
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Hmm.
Would you like to post some examples, dan?
I can post an example of one of his "testpieces" (pffffrt) being downgraded by 5 whole grades, which must be a record by itself.
As I say, he's certainly a good boulderer, but the best? Definitely not. The climbing community outside the US - where as we know he is worshipped unquestioningly as a god - is skeptical about his abilities and with good reason: wouldn't you agree that while he routinely claims incredible grades for his own first ascents, he seems to have posted a surprisingly small number of repeats of other people's hardest works?
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ikefromla
May 19, 2005, 1:54 PM
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In reply to: have been mysteriously handed their asses when the actual playing is done.
In reply to: I can post an example of one of his "testpieces" (pffffrt) being downgraded by 5 whole grades, which must be a record by itself.
In reply to: The climbing community outside the US - where as we know he is worshipped unquestioningly as a god - is skeptical about his abilities and with good reason: wouldn't you agree that while he routinely claims incredible grades for his own first ascents, he seems to have posted a surprisingly small number of repeats of other people's hardest works?
I rest my case.
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tradman
May 19, 2005, 3:23 PM
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No, I'm saying that he's done a surprisingly small number of repeats of other people's work.
I think he's done dreamtime hasn't he? That's supposed to be V15, and to be honest I don't believe the hoo-hah about it being chipped. But what else?
If you look at the tick lists of most climbers at that level, they're repeating other people's hardest stuff regularly. Sharma isn't. Isn't that odd?
Footnote: as to the Mandala it seems you have two choices: either you deny the downgrading in order to support your assertion that sharma is the best, or you accept it and remove the support for that same assertion. Sending V12 does not make you world-class.
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taualum23
May 19, 2005, 3:32 PM
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Tradman,
You really do love trolling the Sharma fans, don't you?
I mean, come on, though, isn't it too easy? You shouldn't be working these T0 warmups. Hell, your T16 is only T12 now. Maybe YOU'RE not world class. Back to community with us, we can argue creationism.
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grayhghost
May 19, 2005, 3:59 PM
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Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 444
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Esperanza
Slashface
Dreamtime
Cave Rave
The list goes on. . . .
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tradman
May 19, 2005, 4:42 PM
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Hmm, a whole 4 problems, of which only 1 is a V15, one is a debatable 14 and one has been repeated dozens of times.
Well, I'm blown away.
Nevertheless, I'll gather myself for long enough to say again, isn't it odd that sharma's hardest stuff is always his own?
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grayhghost
May 19, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Yes it is odd, and Warren Harding
should have been repeating After Six
instead of putting up the Nose because
we all know you have to repeat to be
worth anything.
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tradman
May 19, 2005, 4:54 PM
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Fair comment, but that's not what I'm saying.
If you've only ever done one V15, then how do you know the grade well enough to give your own projects that grade (or higher)?
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boulderman
May 19, 2005, 6:02 PM
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Ahh.. crap, sucked in... :D
In reply to: If you've only ever done one V15, then how do you know the grade well enough to give your own projects that grade (or higher)?
I don't know, how did Fred Nicole know what V15 was..? It was the first, with nothing else to compare it too. How does Dai Koyamada know what a V16 is?
So, name 5 euro boulders for us, so we have something to compare too. Sharma did win a world cup right? I've watched him smoke many hard V14 climbers in a comp. I mean... no comparison. There were a few euro climbers there as well. Obviosly there are some other very strong climbers all over the world, and on any given day one will get shut down on another's problem. But to say Sharma isn't among the best and that he isn't world class is silly, (And it looks to be about 100 to 1 here as far as opinions go). But, not to recognise others, such as Litz, Nicole, Koyamada, Rosaasen, etc. is silly too. So who the Fuck cares, it is pretty obvious that Sharma can pretty much do what ever he puts his mind too, whether that be repeats problems, or works on first ascents.
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jowanky
May 19, 2005, 6:26 PM
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I am pretty sure Sharma doesnt grade his routes, its just others speculating at the difficulty of it.
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tradman
May 20, 2005, 9:18 AM
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In reply to: I don't know, how did Fred Nicole know what V15 was..? It was the first, with nothing else to compare it too. How does Dai Koyamada know what a V16 is?
Good question with a simple answer: Nicole knows what V15 was like because he'd climbed loads of V14s and it was harder than all of them. Dreamtime was then repeated and the repeater, who had also done loads of V14s, agreed that it should be V15. This is how grading works for most people.
Same for Koyamada; he can say "V16" and be taken seriously because he's done a load of 15s.
But this isn't about other climbers' records, it's about Sharma's. His hardest stuff always seems to be his own, yet every other major climber is stepping up and repeating each others; problems.
It's well known that Sharma's publicity and marketing people have him adopt a mystical, new-age position of being one with the earth, not grading his problems and being egoless and uninterested in competing - and that stuff sells t-shirts to his disciples by the truckload - but why do you think it is that he's so reluctant to sack up and go for hard repeats? What would it expose?
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mzem919
May 20, 2005, 1:56 PM
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Posts: 30
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t-shirts!?! Really? can I get one? where? please tell me....
this sandbox is dirty.
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