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moose_droppings
Jan 23, 2010, 8:55 PM
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I have a pair of Cassin 12pt crampons with a straight connecting bar. Are there antiballing or antibootts that can be bought and modified for these crampons?
Or Does anyone have any easy homemade ideas?
Would it be better to by some crampons that come with them?
After slogging several miles with what seemed like 20#'s hanging of each foot I'm resolved to solve this issue one way or another.
Thanks.
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mattsheat
Jan 23, 2010, 9:26 PM
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The best anti-balling plates I have used are the Grivel antibots. They perform far better than any other anti-balling plate I have used. Petzl, simond, BD etc
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sween345
Jan 23, 2010, 10:11 PM
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moose,
Cassin recently entered into a distribution agreement with Liberty Mountain Sports, if you want to inquire with them about obtaining the model specific botts.
Otherwise, there's a couple of DIY type guys on http://neice.com and http://cascadeclimbers.com who could advise you on making your own.
Jim
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moose_droppings
Jan 23, 2010, 10:23 PM
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sween345 wrote: moose, Cassin recently entered into a distribution agreement with Liberty Mountain Sports
Would that be http://www.libertymountain.com?
I can't find a "Liberty Mountain Sports" with a search.
Thanks.
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Lazlo
Jan 23, 2010, 10:40 PM
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just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons.
I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times.
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sween345
Jan 23, 2010, 11:54 PM
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moose,
I apparently had a senior moment. Liberty Mountain will be distributing for Grivel. http://www.libertymountain.com/...ls.asp?c=1&id=31
Cassin's website is not very informative, as they want you to submit a request for information, for retailers, or just about anything else it seems. http://www.cassin.it/uk/contatti.asp
Sorry for the confusion.
Okay... now I've got it. Apparently it's Camp and Cassin will be merging, but I still couldn't find retailer info.
Jim
(This post was edited by sween345 on Jan 23, 2010, 11:55 PM)
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rschap
Jan 24, 2010, 12:56 AM
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Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times.
I would disagree with that. If the snow isn’t deep enough to need snowshoes and is a little icy, or on a packed down trail that is iced over in the morning. I’m looking for some for my Hyper Harpoons for when I’m walking around in the snow out ice climbing.
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moose_droppings
Jan 24, 2010, 1:03 AM
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Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times.
I was walking up a frozen creek to some falls so it was on an incline or up frozen steps. Some times it was bare ice, most of the time there was snow on top of the ice, and the ice was slick as snot under the snow. Walking on the canyon sides wasn't an option if you wanted to cover any distance in a day. The tips would find ice to grab a purchase through the snow until the buildup would get to bad, then I had to kick them clean and slog on for a ways, lather, repeat.
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moose_droppings
Jan 24, 2010, 1:30 AM
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Thanks sween345.
Yea, Cassin's site hasn't been much help yet.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Jan 24, 2010, 2:08 AM)
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dr_feelgood
Jan 24, 2010, 3:14 AM
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If you're in the DIY mood, apparently butchering a milk jug and wiring it to the crampon works great. Haven't gotten around to doing it yet, and i'd probably use a heavier plastic.
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Lazlo
Jan 24, 2010, 3:40 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times. I was walking up a frozen creek to some falls so it was on an incline or up frozen steps. Some times it was bare ice, most of the time there was snow on top of the ice, and the ice was slick as snot under the snow. Walking on the canyon sides wasn't an option if you wanted to cover any distance in a day. The tips would find ice to grab a purchase through the snow until the buildup would get to bad, then I had to kick them clean and slog on for a ways, lather, repeat.
Ah! i can absolutely see the validity there. I'd want plates too.
DMM has a really cool set that is a material not all that dissimilliar from the rubber of a bicycle tire. Might be worth a try to wire on a foot shaped patch of rubber.
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climbingcoastie
Jan 24, 2010, 3:43 AM
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I have seen the milk jug idea several times. Works great and lasts a season or two depending on how much you use them.
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brownie710
Jan 24, 2010, 4:46 PM
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i usually just put several wraps of duct tape on my m-1o's and it keeps the balling down to a minimum (my friends who have abs usually still have to wack of some snow from time to time the same as me). I can usually get through half a season before i have to wrap again (cheap and easy)
also (in response to the wondering why you need them if your strictly climbing ice) i find on ice approaches and some belays i get buildup so even if your strictly ice climbing i think some sort of preventative is encouraged
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moose_droppings
Jan 24, 2010, 5:39 PM
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I did try wrapping with electrical tape yesterday on a whim, didn't even think about duct tape. Guess I'll see if it works, even half ass would be an improvement.
The slim plastic (milk jug) piece affixed to the bottoms will definitely get a try after the tape gets a chance.
Thanks for the ideas. Any others?
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coolcat83
Jan 24, 2010, 5:55 PM
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A friend of mine did the milk jug thing but used one of those squared off ones from costco, apparently the plastic is a little heavier.
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atg200
Jan 25, 2010, 2:45 PM
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Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times.
That is a good strategy for getting yourself killed in a place like the Andes.
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iknowfear
Jan 25, 2010, 3:19 PM
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atg200 wrote: Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times. That is a good strategy for getting yourself killed in a place like the Andes.
or the alps
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rhyang
Jan 25, 2010, 6:05 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: I have a pair of Cassin 12pt crampons with a straight connecting bar. Are there antiballing or antibootts that can be bought and modified for these crampons?
Walkhigh Mountaineering in the UK may stock them, though the exchange rate & shipping to the US might suck. I have a pair of C14's and am not too thrilled with the factory antibotts, though for ice cragging it's usually not an issue.
This page suggests using tractor inner tubes .. have to try that sometime.
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moose_droppings
Jan 25, 2010, 8:12 PM
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Thanks. I bookmarked that page for all the different DIY ideas. Maybe a DIY for Ice and Alpine thread could be started for everyone's tricks, shortcuts and savings ideas all in one spot.
I went ahead and used the plastic off the lid from a gallon bucket of Land of Lakes ice cream. Luckily it hasn't warmed up enough to see how well they'll work. I made 3 1/8" holes on the front halves to place small machine bolts with a nut and washer to hold them in place. I only needed 2 holes and the bolt for the connecting bar on the back halves. Should make it easy to replace the plastic or even go with rubber next time.
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Lazlo
Jan 26, 2010, 12:00 AM
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iknowfear wrote: atg200 wrote: Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times. That is a good strategy for getting yourself killed in a place like the Andes. or the alps
Why is that?
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iknowfear
Jan 26, 2010, 8:22 AM
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my google-fu is weak today, but I remember reading Pit Schubert saying that balling on crampons was one of the most common reasons for accidents on snow and ice.
And I think this makes sense: if you go for an easy 4000 like the Allalinhorn via the Hohlaubgrat, you start walking on the glacier, which then turns to hard snow, which sometimes has soft spots. If you want to take off you crampons all the time you hit some snow, you'll spend your day taking off and putting on your crampons. And if you have your crampons off (or they are full of snow) and hit a patch of ice/hard snow: good luck!
(tis why I said alps: don't know anything about ice&snow conditions elsewhere...)
btw: why did you take off you anti balling plates? Are they inconvenient/ heavy / restricting the 'normal' use of your crampons? I see no inconvenience in having them on my crampons.
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atg200
Jan 26, 2010, 3:52 PM
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in the afternoon the sun turns glacial surfaces into a sticky mess, and this gets worse the closer to the equator you get. crampons are necessary because this glacial snow surface can be very steep, can change steepness very quickly, and the surface type can change very quickly with even minor changes in aspect.
not wearing crampons on a steep snow route like chimborazo in ecuador is a really good way to get yourself killed. not having anti-botts is a slightly less effective way to get yourself killed, but can still be effective if you pop off a crampon in a bad place.
your no crampon for snow theory might kinda work at certain times of years in a predictable range like the sierras, but it is spectacularly bad advice for bigger ranges like the alps, alaska, andes, or the himalaya. crampons have been very necessary on every glaciated peak i've climbed in the andes, and absolutely no one climbs without them and only very few without anti-balling plates of some kind.
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Lazlo
Jan 26, 2010, 11:22 PM
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iknowfear wrote: btw: why did you take off you anti balling plates? Are they inconvenient/ heavy / restricting the 'normal' use of your crampons? I see no inconvenience in having them on my crampons.
In the sierras, the snow conditions are very predictable. Once you hit a certain altitude/time of day/ time of year you pretty much know what the conditions are going to be. These conditions will stay consistant...so we generally put our crampons on at 10,000 feet and above, then remove them for descent.
I've seen A LOT of novice climbers putting their crampons on right out of the car just because they're on snow and plan to climb a mountain, regardless of conditions. It also doesn't help that the local gear store that rents out gear puts the crampons on the boot the moment they rent them out.
I'll admit I had some ignorance as far as other mountain ranges being different.
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EvilMonkey
Jan 27, 2010, 3:27 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: Lazlo wrote: just curious, where are you hiking that you need crampons? if you're on ice, you have no need for plates...and if you're on snow you don't need crampons. I threw my anti-balling plates in a box the day I realized I was just simply wearing crampons at the wrong times. I was walking up a frozen creek to some falls so it was on an incline or up frozen steps. Some times it was bare ice, most of the time there was snow on top of the ice, and the ice was slick as snot under the snow. Walking on the canyon sides wasn't an option if you wanted to cover any distance in a day. The tips would find ice to grab a purchase through the snow until the buildup would get to bad, then I had to kick them clean and slog on for a ways, lather, repeat.
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moose_droppings
Jan 27, 2010, 4:12 AM
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It's all cool.
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