I just called Rock and Snow, and they said they are only ordering from Grivel once a year now. Since Grivel dropped it's US market, it may become harder to get replacement parts in the future, and the prices could see an increase as well. Just something to think about...
I just called Rock and Snow, and they said they are only ordering from Grivel once a year now. Since Grivel dropped it's US market, it may become harder to get replacement parts in the future, and the prices could see an increase as well. Just something to think about...
Trust me on this- with Grivel you wont need replacement parts that frequent.
Nikmit. When i ran grivel machines I needed 2 sets of picks per year just like with every other system that i run. I will admit that the grivel picks do not break like the BD picks but they grind down and need replaceing just the same.. Don't get hung up on the brand though. just get good with whatever tool you have. Any modern tool with ergo grips and knuckle guard hooks is going to do the trick. You may need to adjust the weight. I feel that the reactors and new vipers climb better with the old heavier hammers on them etc.
I'd go Quarks. BUT I'd also say that if you plan on doing mixed you'll probably end up with two sets of tools.
This will all depend on the type of ice you are climbing - single pitch vs. multi-pitch.
I have: Both the Nomics and the Quarks, and the new BD Cobras.
Generally I climb with the Nomic on single pitch ice and mixed, Quarks with leash for multi-pitch ice and harder (WI4-5) Ice. The reason is that I like the leash, it helps me feel secure, and on multi-pitch. A dropped tool on lead would be a big problem.
The BD cobras were bought for my wife. She liked them because they are light. I have climbed on them a few times. Not a huge fan. I find I get them stuck way too often...
One idea I've been tossing around is getting the Fusions with a pair of laser picks and a spinner leash (umbilical cord). That pretty much sets me for moderate to hard ice and mixed and multi-pitch. Doesn't do much for more alpine pursuits perhaps, but I can live with that.
One idea I've been tossing around is getting the Fusions with a pair of laser picks and a spinner leash (umbilical cord). That pretty much sets me for moderate to hard ice and mixed and multi-pitch. Doesn't do much for more alpine pursuits perhaps, but I can live with that.
I'm not sure if you can actually. I know I couldn't... The alpine is where its at man!
The origional fusion climbed straight ice horribly but was a stellar mixed tool. I would want o know a lot more about the new fusion before i made that leap if i intedned to climb ice with them. Why not go the Reactor rout and save a bunch of mony and run them with the spinner teather?
The origional fusion climbed straight ice horribly but was a stellar mixed tool. I would want o know a lot more about the new fusion before i made that leap if i intedned to climb ice with them. Why not go the Reactor rout and save a bunch of mony and run them with the spinner teather?
And that was the other option I was debating.
Edit: goddammit this shit is hard!
(This post was edited by shoo on Nov 15, 2009, 4:51 PM)
One idea I've been tossing around is getting the Fusions with a pair of laser picks and a spinner leash (umbilical cord). That pretty much sets me for moderate to hard ice and mixed and multi-pitch. Doesn't do much for more alpine pursuits perhaps, but I can live with that.
I'm not sure if you can actually. I know I couldn't... The alpine is where its at man!
He's got a point.
The alpine IS where it's at...
(This post was edited by joeforte on Nov 16, 2009, 12:54 AM)
This will be a bit off topic, given your narrow question (between just those three tools), but...
I'd give another vote for a more well-rounded tool. If you are climbing WI3, you are not going to be "held back" anytime soon by something like the BD Vipers (they've been fine for me up to WI5 and M8).
Unless you want to purchase a 'quiver' of ice tools for every possible different situation, a good solid all-arounder like the Vipers or Cobras could be just the ticket.
Lots of climbing gear advertising, like all advertising, is just hype. It's better to just try tools and go with what feels good in your hand. Since it seems like you have tried this with the Vipers/Cobras, perhaps they are not for you. But given your current climbing level and the fact that most good tools will be fine up to a pretty respectable level of climbing, I might consider a less specialized tool if I were you.
Nikmit. When i ran grivel machines I needed 2 sets of picks per year just like with every other system that i run. I will admit that the grivel picks do not break like the BD picks but they grind down and need replacing just the same.
I'm not hung up with the brand- I hate Grivel's customer service in EU, but my partner climb with Quarks with picks for mixed climbing, and by the time I had to replace the picks on my Taa k oon's he wore off the second pair of Quark's picks. I totally agree, that one have to climb with whatever he can find, I'm just saying that if I get the chance to choose I'll choose Grivel any time.
I have the new BD Vipers with Laser Picks and I don't like them. The tool is way too light - in hard ice I find myself making way too many swings to get a solid placement. I also dislike the Laser picks - I find they are difficult to clean due to the rounded pick shape.
I've tried both the Petzl Quark and the Nomic. IMO The Quark is a better tool for a beginner/intermediate climber (WI 3-4). It is much heftier than the Quarks and the BD tools and hence easier to place. In addition I find the Quarks much easier to clean than the BD's due to the pick shape. I find the BD laser picks stick way too often on plastic ice. I sometimes have to crank really hard just to remove the BD's, which increases the pump factor on steep ice.
The Quark is the best all-around tool on the market IMO - easy to place, easy to clean, has a leash option and a hammer/adze... what more could you want?
The Nomic is a lighter tool and is shaped differently so I found that the swing took a bit of getting used to. The nomic also comes with the Astro pick which is optimized for mixed climbing, albeit only slightly different from the Cascade pick. You could fork out an extra $100 for the Cascade picks (standard on the Quarks) which are better for pure ice. The Nomic is hands down the better tool for mixed climbing but I'd say from my personal experience that the Quark is slightly better for pure ice.
Shoo - My Reactors came in the mail last night, I'm pretty excited. I'll probably end up getting a set of titan picks and a spinner tether. I can bring the tools to MR if you want to check them out.
There is a lot of talk about using two different tools and I don't feel like you need to. If you think you will go the mixed route the nomics are perfect and you can climb with the nomics on vert ice as well. I have Quarks, Cobras, Vipers, and nomics and always use nomics. Once you learn how to swing the tool you realize that it is great for all levels of ice and mixed. All you have to do is switch the picks out and you have a very versatile tool. The tool is great you get a huge jug to hang on to. I even use the nomics in the alpine if its at all technical, although if I am going super light I take my atzars. Here are some things to think about: If you are not comfortable on steep ice and want a leash the quarks are nice but you can also add a leash to the nomics. The nomics don't plunge well so if you are not really comfortable on steep snow the other tools work well. If on mixed I feel like the shape of the cobra/viper climb better than the quark. The viper is nice because you can torque it without having to worry about the shaft getting beat up. So bottom line is all the tools are great tools and you so you need to pick what feels good to you. Just don't feel like the nomic is only for mixed. In my opinion it climbs steep ice better than anything. It is so well balanced you can work your hands up the shaft with little shift of the pick which is great on mixed or steep thin ice. My other tools usually get used by my clients and if I teach someone who wants to climb leashless I always use the nomic.
(This post was edited by mattb1921 on Nov 18, 2009, 5:05 PM)
includes pics of fusion over layed on nomic and visa versa.
I have the reactors, I don't ice climb very much or very well but I asked Colin Haley about them a couple of years ago and he said they were the best verticle ice tool he had used and he used them on the Marsigny-Parkin/West Ridge link up on cerro torre.
Shoo - My Reactors came in the mail last night, I'm pretty excited. I'll probably end up getting a set of titan picks and a spinner tether. I can bring the tools to MR if you want to check them out.
Hells yes. I'll be there tomorrow and Friday this week, and almost always on Tues and Thurs.
Also, why the titan pick?
I've been holding off at looking at prices until now. I'm not going to get specific about what the exact prices are, but this may help a little. And yes, I made an excel chart to determine exactly what I'm looking for.
New here so hello all. Im not crazy about the Awax design - no offence meant but they curve in a linear fasion, An excellent design for the mountains and easier grades. I feel the shape does not reach well over technical ground - I climbed on the similarly designed DMM preditors for 5 years and at the time it seemed a whole new world. But weve moved on. There seems a lot of issue over design end use of a matched pair of tools. Having re-read that line it seems silly, however what I mean to say is that I climb with 3 tools. My original Charlet strait shaft with hammer. If Im craging on technical terrain then its my nomics all the way, if not then its 3 tools. I would say the Nomics are for me and almost everyone I climb with the best pure hard ice/mixed tool available but limited under say 80 degrees. I agree the grivels are excellent and the monsters are very affordable if you can find them. Ive done a lot of very steep stuff on monsters, and I may even buy a set of monster X's for my wife (one she has had our 1st baby). BD axes have always felt like a bit of a compromise to me, just my opinion. Whatever you get enjoy!!!
Shoo - My Reactors came in the mail last night, I'm pretty excited. I'll probably end up getting a set of titan picks and a spinner tether. I can bring the tools to MR if you want to check them out.
Hells yes. I'll be there tomorrow and Friday this week, and almost always on Tues and Thurs.
Also, why the titan pick?
I've been holding off at looking at prices until now. I'm not going to get specific about what the exact prices are, but this may help a little. And yes, I made an excel chart to determine exactly what I'm looking for.
Price pretty well takes the Nomics and above out of the running for me. I'm not really considering the Vipers as I don't like their swing.
So final showdown question: Are the new Fusions worth the ~47% increase in price over the Reactors?
Titan picks are not great for waterfall ice. They're a little too burly, especially on crap ice, and often require a few swings to get a good set. They are better suited for mixed
I just bought a PAIR of Anaconda cup light tools from Sierra Trading Post for $275! They normally retail for around $275 A PIECE. I saw the sale and bought them due to money constraints, but later realized that they are actually a really nice tool. All the reviews I've read about them have been positive as well.
The picks can be changed without tools, which is a great design. They weight in at 515 grams, which is super light, but if you want more weight you can add hammer or adze to bump them up to a little over 600g. They also come with a removable trigger, and use FORGED picks, which I think is really important. They have plenty of clearance, a really comfortable pinky rest (it doesn't look that great in pics) and seem like they should still plunge fairly well. I think they are a very well built, versatile tool for the price.
What do you guvs feel about using Grivel Monster or similar tools for alpine routes or easier iceclimbing? There has been a couple of posts on a swedish forum about that
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