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zeke_sf
Dec 10, 2008, 7:30 PM
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altelis wrote: camhead wrote: Another option that may not be do-able for your timeframe is for you is to construct a simple frame shelter out of poles, brush, and maybe a tarp, and situate it so it will get buried in snow in the winter, providing it with all the insulation of a snow cave or igloo. I had a friend do this for one season, and it lasted quite well. ie a yurt- this is what i suggested above, and will give it +3 here (does my first suggestion count?) i think this will be the best/sturdiest/roomiest for your time frame. if you invested in some pvc or cheap metal piping you could even get a fire pit going in the yurt!
+4. If it's good enough for the mongol horde, it's good enough for a cheap ass who watched Into the Wild one too many times.
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altelis
Dec 10, 2008, 7:34 PM
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plus, as to the "stealth" idea:
if you find a gentle slope putting the shelter on the downhill side, packing some extra snow around and being smart about the entrance and "trails" used to get there, snow shelters can be pretty much invisible!
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mattq331
Dec 10, 2008, 7:45 PM
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I can personally affirm the strength of an igloo - built using the Grand shelters tool.
(Rocky Mountain National Park, circa 2001)
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OnIgloo.jpg
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camhead
Dec 10, 2008, 7:47 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: altelis wrote: camhead wrote: Another option that may not be do-able for your timeframe is for you is to construct a simple frame shelter out of poles, brush, and maybe a tarp, and situate it so it will get buried in snow in the winter, providing it with all the insulation of a snow cave or igloo. I had a friend do this for one season, and it lasted quite well. ie a yurt- this is what i suggested above, and will give it +3 here (does my first suggestion count?) i think this will be the best/sturdiest/roomiest for your time frame. if you invested in some pvc or cheap metal piping you could even get a fire pit going in the yurt! +4. If it's good enough for the mongol horde, it's good enough for a cheap ass who watched Into the Wild one too many times.
yeah, I guess that my definition of "yurt" may be a bit narrower than altelis's. The type of structure that I envisioned was basically a glorified wickiup designed to be UNDER the snow.
the yurt thing reminds me of this age old conundrum:
how much board would a Mongol hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?
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climbingaggie03
Jan 12, 2009, 5:26 AM
Post #55 of 75
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So this is just a quick update for those who care. I ended up going with the grand shelters Ice box tool to build an igloo. I've been in it about 2 weeks now and so far so good. The building of the igloo took more time than I thought it would and I had friends to help, but we did have really crappy snow, so that definitely didn't help.
I have a 0 degree bag and a blanket that I've been sleeping under on top of my ultra deluxe therma rest. I've been sleeping really well and haven't even needed to zip up my sleeping bag, even on the night when it was -15 outside. It does get below freezing in there. I just bought a lantern to help put some more heat in it, and I tried to buy a CO alarm, but they were all sold out in town, so I'll use the lantern sparingly til I can be confident that I'm not going to smother myself with Carbon Monoxide. I haven't had any problems with dampness or melting on the inside, I just picked up a bivy sack, mostly cause it was cheap and I do get frost/ice from my breath freezing on my sleeping bag, hopefully this will help.
So far I'm really pleased with the thing, I sleep great, all my friends are amazed that I'm living in an igloo, and I really enjoy the moonlit walk home in the evenings. The worst part of it is getting out of bed in the morning, but that is getting easier, and is much easier on powder days :)
hopefully I can get some pictures on here, or a link to some in a few days.
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graniteboy
Jan 13, 2009, 12:28 AM
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Actually I'm much more interested in the update after week #20. The 2 week update sounds bright and cheery enough....but be sure to lemme know how things are going after the rodents discover what a great nesting material your sleeping bag insulation makes, etc.
Stiff upper lip, chap.
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dingus
Jan 13, 2009, 1:41 AM
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Livin the dream. Thanks for posting. Please update as you feel the urge.
Cheers
DMT
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climbingaggie03
Feb 6, 2009, 7:20 AM
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Well I haven't made it to Week 20 yet, but as of week 5-6ish Things are still good in the igloo. It's actually gotten more comfortable and easier to live in as I've gotten more used to it. I got a lantern which offers much appreciated light and warmth and I have a CO detector so that I won't be found stiff and cold due to CO.
I tried a bivy sack, I bought the Mountain hardwear Conduit SL bivy which says that it is intended for snow caves among other things, it didn't work for me. I sleep with my bag unzipped and pulled over me like a blanket. I do get some moisture from my body that goes to the outside of my bag, with the bivy sack the breathability was so low that I got all sorts of condensation in my bag and between the bag and bivy, especially on what would be the underside or bottom of the bivy if it were being used normally. I suspect that the floor of the bivy isn't breathable, but I was pretty disappointed in the conduit side of the bivy. I'll probably keep the bivy sack for walls and as a just in case thing for long hikes, cause it was reasonably priced, but I think that any night spent in it would probably be pretty miserable.
I'm also working on a New Igloo that will hopefully be finished tomorrow. My roof is sagging a bit, when I was building my current igloo, we didn't quite understand how to build it with a catenary curve so the roof is too flat and sagging in some, I've since understood the instructions for the catenary design and I'm building a fresh in a spot that will hopefully get a bit less sun as well. Also I'm making an igloo that is 8 feet in Diameter as opposed to the 10 foot one that I'm in currently. It's easier to build solo, and it'll be a bit more efficient to heat.
I have no big complaints about it yet, I did have a mouse get into some candy I had, so I'm no longer keeping food in there, and I've got most of my clothes in a plastic box that will hopefully keep them from becoming mouse nest material if the mouse decides to come back.
I'm still working on pictures but here's a quick list of the gear I've got that keeps me comfy.
Thermarest Dream Time XL
REI Kilo Plus 0 degree sleeping bag
Snow Peak Giga Power Lantern
Pillow
Salomon Goretex Tennis shoes
Montbell thermawrap Jacket and Parka
Patagonia Capilene 2 bottoms
I spend most of my time in snow pants of various makes
I also live out of an XL timbuk2 bag
So nothing too exciting, but life is still good in the gloo, also I'm planning an open house for all my co-workers, I'm thinking that I'll bury a 1/4 barrel keg in my floor and have people bring food between the 2 igloo's it should be fun :)
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codhands
Feb 6, 2009, 7:59 AM
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Build your snow cave and brag to the chicks about what a Grizzly Adams Mofo you are you, hell even take em to your "LAIR" for a little sesh. Then they will get cold and leave, then you can go climb up in through the exterior ingress of some handy pitched roof structure to your "Secret Lair", where you get the pleasure of racking out with the squirrels. And if anyone asks what you were doing up there, tell them the squirrels were eating the insulation off the wiring, or hell just find yourself a nice friendly "Cougar" to cuddle up with for the winter.
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dingus
Feb 6, 2009, 2:59 PM
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That's pretty cool. You're a hard ass. I can't wait to see some of the climbs you send in the next few years.
You may be the New Ice Man.
DMT
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scottek67
Feb 6, 2009, 3:57 PM
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codhands wrote: Build your snow cave and brag to the chicks about what a Grizzly Adams Mofo you are you, hell even take em to your "LAIR" for a little sesh. Then they will get cold and leave, then you can go climb up in through the exterior ingress of some handy pitched roof structure to your "Secret Lair", where you get the pleasure of racking out with the squirrels. And if anyone asks what you were doing up there, tell them the squirrels were eating the insulation off the wiring, or hell just find yourself a nice friendly "Cougar" to cuddle up with for the winter.
hilarious! words to live by!
I gotta say a couple things... that seems like alot of freaking work to save ten bucks a night. Why not move to Canada cuz we all live in igloos year-round. You mentioned you are the bus driver... why not sleep on the bus?? You have survived so far but I still want to mention my only concern. I don't know what kind of lantern you are using (or if you sleep with it running) and I am glad you have the CO detector but you still need ventilation. Some lanterns will suck up all the oxygen before they give off any CO. just my 2 cents and my hats off to you!
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graniteboy
Feb 6, 2009, 7:36 PM
Post #62 of 75
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Forgive me for repeating myself: The answer to sleeping dry in a snowcave for extended periods is to use a Bivy sack in conjunction with a vapor barrier liner. ALl that moisture from your body will turn your bag into a sogpile otherwise.
VB liners are cheap. And in the morning, you just take it out of your bag, turn it inside out for a few minutes till it freezes, and shake off the ice film.
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climbingaggie03
Feb 7, 2009, 4:41 AM
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Hey Graniteboy, any beta on where I can get a VBL? I've been thinking that a VBL would do good, but I don't know where to get one.
I have been taking my bag to the laundromat periodically, and without the bivy sack, I don't really have a moisture problem what moisture I do emit goes through the bag and evaporates out the other side, only when I put the bivy sack over it did I suddenly have a noticable problem with the moisture.
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graniteboy
Feb 11, 2009, 12:01 AM
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There are tons of em out there. Some are great, some are not. But you're thin on cash...so....
http://www.campmor.com/...120&CS_010=41364
The deal with VBs is that, at some point, the humidity within the bag gets so high that your sweat glands shut down, and the vapor pressure within then stays constant, and you quit losing heat to evaporation, so you'll sleep about 10 degrees warmer.
The other deal is that you'll smell bad. Real Bad. But it sounds like you have access to showers.
Spring Equinox is heading your way. Just another what, 6 or 7 weeks? My pals up in Igloolik just watched the annual "return of the sun" festival the other day.....they hadn't seen the sun for a couple months...so we should all feel pretty lucky down here at these latitudes, no matter what.
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Valarc
Feb 11, 2009, 12:03 AM
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So you've been in the thing a couple of weeks now, tried out some different options....
how about some pics?
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climbingaggie03
Feb 14, 2009, 8:33 PM
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Here's some pics from when the thing was first built, if I can get a hold of a camera, I'll show you how it's sagged and my new 8 foot igloo. The igloo in these pictures is a 10 foot igloo, but we didn't get the pole adjustments right when we built it, so we didn't end up with a caternary curve in the wall so the ceiling sagged some.
I'm having trouble with the pictures, so here's the links, if someone can fix them that'd be great
[url=http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=outsideigloogu4.jpg][img=http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3323/outsideigloogu4.th.jpg][/url]
[url=http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=caitlinontopxr8.jpg][img=http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5179/caitlinontopxr8.th.jpg][/url]
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macblaze
Feb 14, 2009, 10:33 PM
Post #67 of 75
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climbingaggie03 wrote: Here's some pics from when the thing was first built, if I can get a hold of a camera, I'll show you how it's sagged and my new 8 foot igloo. The igloo in these pictures is a 10 foot igloo, but we didn't get the pole adjustments right when we built it, so we didn't end up with a caternary curve in the wall so the ceiling sagged some. [image][URL=http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=almostfinishedyg5.jpg][IMG]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6209/almostfinishedyg5.th.jpg[/IMG][image] I'm having trouble with the pictures, so here's the links, if someone can fix them that'd be great [url=http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=outsideigloogu4.jpg][img=http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3323/outsideigloogu4.th.jpg] [url=http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=caitlinontopxr8.jpg][img=http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5179/caitlinontopxr8.th.jpg]
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dingus
Feb 15, 2009, 1:32 PM
Post #68 of 75
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Damn the dude lives in the White House!
DMT
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camhead
Feb 15, 2009, 5:18 PM
Post #69 of 75
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soooo.... the obvious question.
have you wooed any ladies in that thing yet? has it been upgraded from mere "snow shelter" to "stabbin' cabin den of icy debauchery?"
We need to know.
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scottek67
Feb 15, 2009, 5:25 PM
Post #70 of 75
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camhead wrote: soooo.... the obvious question. have you wooed any ladies in that thing yet? has it been upgraded from mere "snow shelter" to "stabbin' cabin den of icy debauchery?" We need to know.
We do need to know! camhead you are hilarious!
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climbingaggie03
Mar 13, 2009, 7:06 AM
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Well I thought i'd update and say that unfortunately, no, so far I haven't managed to make it a stabbin cabin, but spring break is coming up so who knows :) also I've met a couple of girls who seemed pretty hot for igloos so maybe i'll be able to play the how many girls do you know that hooked up in an igloo card.
On another note, I'm hitting about week 12 (and nearing the end of my season due to pressures from the Girlfriend who doesn't check this site) and It's been a great experience and I would do it again in a heart beat. I did have one mishap a couple of weeks ago though, I accidentally put my sleeping bag on top of my lit lantern and melted a hole in it. I was really disappointed and there was down everywhere but I duct taped it for the night and patched it with some nylon the next day and I managed to get most of the down back in there (I think)
I haven't had any problems with animals, theft, or rangers so it's been pretty much no problems. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and advice it has been helpful, and also I have to recommend the grand shelters Ice box, if you're going to spend more than one night in a snow shelter, I'd go with an icebox igloo, with practice, the building is pretty straight forward and you stay tons drier building one than you do a snow cave.
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dingus
Mar 13, 2009, 1:36 PM
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Pretty cool. Thanks for the update. It would be great if you would post some pics of your 'lived in' snow digs. Dude, how about a 'Day in the life of' photo TR?
Cheers
DMT
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tallnik
Mar 13, 2009, 8:53 PM
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good on ya ice man!
Nik
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atg200
Mar 17, 2009, 5:54 PM
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This thread is amazing. It is wonderful to see a hare-brained noob idea turn into a hare-brained hardman existence. I salute you ice man!
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graniteboy
Mar 17, 2009, 8:25 PM
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Good onya, aggie kid....you lasted the winter.
I figgered at the beginning that you'd be moved out by about week 4. SO...you've either learned alot about snow caving this winter, or you're desperate and poor as hell and don't have any choice in the matter, or you have brain damage from monoxide.... Of course, these are not necessarily dichotomous choices.
The next thing heading your way is heavy DRIP season. That requires a whole 'nother approach to keeping your stuff dry. Let us know your solutions as springtime starts making things dribbly and runny in there.
All this experience now makes you ready for climbing life in the Alaska range and Patagonia. Good onya.
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