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mhix13
Apr 3, 2010, 4:03 AM
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Simple question: would it be ill-advised to take a hook and sling it with accessory cord? I've seen a lot of webbing and wondered why not accessory cord.
FYI: I'm a trad. climber thinking of getting a hook or two for routes with crack-less slabby sections with no other option for pro than to tape a hook on a flake.
Figured you big-wall guys would offer better advice on this than those in the trad. forum.
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coastal_climber
Apr 3, 2010, 4:17 AM
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Slings/webbing is used so the hook is closer to the rock, so theres less leverage.
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uni_jim
Apr 3, 2010, 5:12 AM
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I have webbing on my smaller hooks (BD Talon), but on my bigger hooks (BD Cliffhanger and Grappeling Hook) I have used 6mm accessory cord. The cord seems to sit nicely when loaded, but still not as nicely as the thin mil spec webbing that I have on the Talon hooks.
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pbcowboy77
Apr 3, 2010, 5:57 AM
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Have you ever used a hook? The first time you try and tape that thing for pro you'll realize that it's not even mental pro...
I can see getting some big hooks, like the fish or Verm, but you need a big flake for that and you may be able to get a cam behind the flake...
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thechef
Apr 3, 2010, 7:52 AM
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9/16th webbing works good. Remember to sling them down and out thus optimizing the downward pressure.
I have fallen on a pointed chounard, with a screamer. Bent it all to hell but it stopped me after a copperhead blew.
If your on a slab, and it is a really good placement, with screamer attached it would hold. Now the deal only works if the hook stays on during the fall!
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tyler
Apr 3, 2010, 12:07 PM
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You can sometimes get a bat hook. Other times, the fifi works well.
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marc801
Apr 3, 2010, 4:09 PM
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tyler wrote: You can sometimes get a bat hook. Other times, the fifi works well.
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the_climber
Apr 3, 2010, 4:20 PM
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If you're looking to try and use them for pro on free routes, Sling them with webbing. It's more flexible and will position the hook closer to the rock.
As for the point of using hooks for Pro... It's a "nothing else" option. A duck tape hook on a hooked edge serves little more than a psychological lightening of the rack you are carrying. If you can find a pocket too small for a tricam, or a bottomed out crack which flairs inward, or a similar feature which you can lock the hook into you might have a chance of having a marginal piece of pro... use a screamer.
I spend a fair bit of time both aiding and on new ground, I always carry a few hooks when I'm on that kind of climb. Have I used hooks for Pro? Sure, lots of times! That said, they are not as comforting or confidence inspiring are one might think. They are typically more useful as a quick point of aid, something to rest on while cleaning off a section, hanging on while drilling, aiding (durrrrrrr). You'll find a rare occasion where they are the only piece for that one section and it's a perfect fit. In general treat them like a micro nut placement at best (unless it's perfect).
Healyje is the one you really should be talking to about using hooks for free climbing pro, he uses them that way likely more than anyone on here.
Oh, and you're gonna die.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Apr 4, 2010, 5:03 PM)
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mhix13
Apr 4, 2010, 7:25 AM
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Thanks! More serious responses than I anticipated... much appreciated!
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evanwish
Apr 4, 2010, 9:40 PM
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A few weeks ago at my local crag I was on a short C2/C3 (who knows). One section required four to five hook moves in a row. A talon, another talon, then two cam hook moves led to a bomber #1 Ball Nut to keep you of the ground. I ended up leaving a talon hook (in a perfect textbook placement) and a cam hook as pro because a fall without pro would have hit a small ledge.
Amazingly even with some rope drag the talon stayed hooked to its perch, and the cam hook didn't even wiggle. I don't have the slightest bit of evidence to know if they would have caught a fall, but in the situation they were definitely better than nothing!
However, as far as longer free climbing falls, eh... from my very little experience with hooks, I don't think they would be very confidence inspiring.
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Kurt_Burt
Aug 10, 2010, 6:44 AM
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cable 'em. Find someone with a swager, get some cable, and viola hooks are bomber. Less cumbersome then slings.
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the_climber
Aug 10, 2010, 6:58 PM
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Kurt Burt, although Cable is ideal for micro pitons and beaks, it is not ideal for hooks due to the lack of flexibility. Hook placements are inherently unstable, and a the flexible nature of soft attachments (ie. slings) allows for the unavoidable movement which can occur. slings also tend to be more stable than a wire attachment due to the fact that if the sling is in contact with the rock it can accommodate irregularities in the surface of the rock that may cause a hard attachment point (ie. cable) to actually lever the placement off the rock.
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trenchdigger
Aug 10, 2010, 7:42 PM
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As we like to say...
"If you have to ask..."
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Kurt_Burt
Aug 10, 2010, 8:06 PM
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My hooks have been slung with cable for years and never had a problem. In fact I learned it from Jim Bridwell and Flyn Brian McCray, so I think their resumes speak more then most of us on this forum. The problem with slings is they can come untied, they are potentially weaker, and they are very cumbersome. You are right in the part where hooking is possible unstable, that is why I do not want my hooks moving around. Standing on a webbing/accessory cord sling with stretch is some scary crap way out. If you are counting on the sling of a hook to make the hooking more stable then you my friend are hooking way above and beyond what I think is hookable. So right on man.
Kurt "Burt" Arend
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russwalling
Aug 11, 2010, 4:49 PM
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In reply to: slings also tend to be more stable than a wire attachment due to the fact that if the sling is in contact with the rock it can accommodate irregularities in the surface of the rock that may cause a hard attachment point (ie. cable) to actually lever the placement off the rock.
That there is one of the best things I have read on here in ages. Very true and well said. Cabled hooks are just not as forgiving or stable as ones slung with webbing, especially if the webbing is going to contact the wall. As far as your knot coming undone, c'mon.... check your knots and tie them tight.
(This post was edited by russwalling on Aug 11, 2010, 4:51 PM)
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evanwish
Aug 11, 2010, 8:25 PM
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russwalling wrote: In reply to: slings also tend to be more stable than a wire attachment due to the fact that if the sling is in contact with the rock it can accommodate irregularities in the surface of the rock that may cause a hard attachment point (ie. cable) to actually lever the placement off the rock. That there is one of the best things I have read on here in ages. Very true and well said. Cabled hooks are just not as forgiving or stable as ones slung with webbing, especially if the webbing is going to contact the wall. As far as your knot coming undone, c'mon.... check your knots and tie them tight.
Yeah I've got to agree with that... I wouldn't even consider hooks with a cable. How many people actually do this?
oh and Russ, I bought your budget haul bag earlier this year, used it on the Prow and absolutely LOVED it! Thanks a ton!!
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evanwish
Aug 12, 2010, 4:20 AM
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russwalling wrote: evanwish wrote: oh and Russ, I bought your budget haul bag earlier this year, used it on the Prow and absolutely LOVED it! Thanks a ton!! I remember... After hearing about the accident, I was holding my breath just in case I killed one of you guys! Hope you are on the mend.
Oh gosh, I'm sorry!! Really though, that bag was great! I realized though that I probably should have just bought the regular one instead of the budget... so I ended up sewing the brain on myself. Also duct taped the shit out of the yellow straps. 11 pitches hauled total, and a scratch on them!
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skullyambro
Sep 25, 2010, 2:59 AM
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All my hooks are tied up with 1/2 tie off tubular.
It works. Never had a problem, with THAT aspect, anyway. I keep my hooks on a short sling at my shoulder, Handy, but not snarley.
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coastal_climber
Nov 8, 2010, 4:02 PM
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tyler wrote: You can sometimes get a bat hook. Other times, the fifi works well.
what the fuck are you talking about.
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