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arrettinator
Feb 27, 2003, 8:16 PM
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I'm building a wall in my garage, and I'd like to set up some bolts to practice clipping. What should I use to fasten the hanger to the wall, so it won't blow out when I take a fall on it?
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kyhangdog
Feb 27, 2003, 8:34 PM
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I'm doing the same thing. My question is can I attach holds directly onto the cement blocks. Will the blocks hold my weight and which type of bolts should I use?
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pianomahnn
Feb 27, 2003, 8:41 PM
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Bad idea.
Woodies aren't really made to handle the impact stress of a fall.
Now, if you just want to practice clipping, you can just fasten some hooks on the wall and hang the draws from that.
It's a garage, so you should't be lead climbing anyways. You'll fall, and land on the ground.
But. . .if you wanted to try and actually take falls on these, you'll need to create a system where your impact force is distributed over a wide area. Falling on a t-nut sized area will blow the plywood out wicked style. The best thing I can think of, and this is purely speculation as I've never tried it, would be using a Fixe or other draw attaching piece of metal, a bolt, one HELL of a large washer, multiple inches in diameter to distribute the force over a much greater area, and a nice nut.
Draw | Fixe | Bolt | WOOD | Washer | Nut
Now, you also have to factor in how you're framing this and the placement of the bolts. Apply standard framing techniques and you should be fine. But if you're using flimsy 2x4 for your studs/joists and anything less than 3/4" plywood, you'll probably break shit.
Don't hold me responsible if you blow your wall out. This is only speculation on what could work for your situation. I'd personally never place bolts which are to fallen on in a woodie, especially not one in a garage.
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pianomahnn
Feb 27, 2003, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: I'm doing the same thing. My question is can I attach holds directly onto the cement blocks. Will the blocks hold my weight and which type of bolts should I use?
What sort of blocks are they?
If they're hollow, I'd say definately not. If they're solid, then you should be able to drill into them, use an anchor and go.
But hell, I'd just throw up a wood framed wall. Its a lot easier than drilling out all the blocks, and you can take it down. With blocks, you've got all of the holes there forever, and it's quite possible the anchors as well, as you may have to blow out a fair bit of the blocks to remove them.
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arrettinator
Feb 27, 2003, 8:48 PM
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I was thinking that, also. It's going to be pretty high, so a fall would still be pretty safe, as long as it didn't blow. I'm not too worried about the rigging to distribute the weight. I'm still working on that plan, but after I figure that part out, it will be bomber. I'm just not sure what piece of hardware to use that won't snap off under that kind of pressure.
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rodeomountain
Feb 27, 2003, 8:55 PM
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on a sheetrock wall you will have to block the wall. That means you have to put 2X6s inbetween the studs and then use a bolt, washer and nut to hold the anchor. That won't blow out. If you already have the sheetrock in place you will have to remove it to do this.
concrete is only strong when it is poured over re-bar. concrete blocks have no re-bar in them and they will break very easily. DO NOT ANCHOR TO THAT AND EXPECT IT TO HOLD.
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aid312
Feb 27, 2003, 8:56 PM
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For block walls you can use a drop in style anchor.
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weaselman
Feb 27, 2003, 9:33 PM
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kyhangdog: i second the comment about hollow blocks, and metolius sells concrete anchors.
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pianomahnn
Feb 27, 2003, 10:18 PM
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In reply to: on a sheetrock wall you will have to block the wall. That means you have to put 2X6s inbetween the studs and then use a bolt, washer and nut to hold the anchor. That won't blow out. If you already have the sheetrock in place you will have to remove it to do this. concrete is only strong when it is poured over re-bar. concrete blocks have no re-bar in them and they will break very easily. DO NOT ANCHOR TO THAT AND EXPECT IT TO HOLD.
Sheetrock wall?!?!?! I'm totally baffled by that statement.
Are you talking about building a wall on front of an already framed/rocked wall? If so, there is no need to remove the sheetrock. It's just one more thing in a long line of things. I would suggest not anchoring a climbing wall to a preexisting wall of a home.
Re-bar or not, it shouldn't make a difference because it's a cement block wall. Rebar is used in sidewalks, buildings, and roadways to help control cracking and add strength. When anchors are place in rock outdoors, there is no rebar in the rock. And if you look at a blowout, even if rocks did come with rebar, they wouldn't have made a difference.
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arrettinator
Feb 27, 2003, 10:30 PM
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Sheetrock is sort of like drywall, except it's hard as f___.
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cheapholds
Feb 28, 2003, 1:07 AM
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we carry an anchor that is made for hollow block walls. they run $1.90 each and will work with any climbing hold and a standard 3/8" bolt. They can be used in pretty much any cement/brick surface, but the ratings for hollow block walls are 3,450 lbs. tension and 2,485 lbs. shear. So, they definitly will do the job.... let me know if you have any questions.
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rodeomountain
Feb 28, 2003, 1:43 PM
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In reply to: Are you talking about building a wall on front of an already framed/rocked wall? If so, there is no need to remove the sheetrock. It's just one more thing in a long line of things.
In order to place blocking to support an anchor on a sheetrock wall, you have to remove the existing sheetrock, place the block (2x6 wood) between the studs of the existing framing. At this point you can either leave the sheetrock off and just place your plywood on the framed wall or put the rock back on then put your plywood over that, either way it doesn't make a differance. anchor, plywood, framing with the 2x6 between the studs, washer and then your nut. This will ensure you do not have a blow-out. I would not waiste the time or money in attaching a framed wall to a framed wall either.
In reply to: Re-bar or not, it shouldn't make a difference because it's a cement block wall. Rebar is used in sidewalks, buildings, and roadways to help control cracking and add strength.
Cement is ONLY STRONG because of the rebar. Go take a hammer if give it a solid wack on the hollow area of the block and 9x out of 10 you will bust a hole through it. Those blocks are only strong to be used as a wall because of the way they are laid, with the holes facing up & down. This is because the ends and the center are solid. But, even at that, if you put extreme weight on them and then remove it they will bust in half. Your talking about placing a bolt/anchor in the weakest part of the block. If you build a upper floor in a house you would have to attach a horizontal stud to the wall and then attach your floor-joist to that. The horizontal stud is there to spread the load over a greater area. You never attach a singal load baring point to a block wall. Go pick up a masonary (sp?) construction book from Home Depot.
In reply to: Sheetrock is sort of like drywall, except it's hard as f___.
They're the exact same thing! There is no differance between the 2.
In reply to: we carry an anchor that is made for hollow block walls.
I have never seen these anchors. There are anchors for cement walls that I have seen, but none that can take that much pressure in a single, hollow area of a cement block. E-mail me a picture of it.
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aid312
Feb 28, 2003, 1:56 PM
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Here is some info on the drop in anchors
http://www.powers.com/AEPDF/6%20Pages%2096-129/Hollow%20Drop-In.pdf
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rodeomountain
Feb 28, 2003, 2:53 PM
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That is exactly what I'm talking about.......The only way I would trust that is if you had a bord spread 2 - 3 foot and with at least 3 of those. I would not fall on that and expect it to hold. You putting allot of pressure in a very small area. There is no way in hell that anchor can spread the weight out accordingly throughout that block. Those anchors are used in construction to anchor a long run of something (Steel or wood) which means that the whole wall would have to come down for one anchor to fail, not likely. Lets say you have a board up horizontal on a wall with 3 of those anchors, all 3 would have to fail for that board to come off. 1 anchor in a 1/2 (anchor size) hole is not going to hold in hollow cement. If it has been done, then your lucky and I'm sure it wont last.
You need to do some research on the stability of concrete and what it is that makes it strong.
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talons05
Feb 28, 2003, 2:56 PM
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Metolius also distributes the Hilti Drop-In (HDI) system. It is basically a threaded jacket that is inserted into the wall. You can then bolt on holds to these slots. Don't let the uninformed posts freak you out about putting holds into concrete blocks. You can check with Metolius or the other companies if you don't believe us, but I have used this system on a wall I built and it is structurally sound.
For your woodie bolts: First, you need to make sure that your wall is framed on 16" centers. If so, then all you have to do is this:
Behind the hole where the bolt is to be installed:
Screw or nail a horizontal crossmember between the studs on the wall. I recommend cutting a 2X6 to 16" and gluing two layers together. (You now have a "4X6")
From Entre Prise climbing walls, you can buy a vented (has holes in it) steel plate that is welded to a 3/8" nut. Similar pieces can be made from parts at your local hardware store. The plate should be at least 4" square. Using long wood screws (long enough to go at least halfway into the second layer of 2X6) Attach the plate/nut to the FRONT side of the brace. Put a screw in every hole in the plate, using washers to span the hole.
Bolt away - Inside.
A.W.
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rodeomountain
Feb 28, 2003, 3:05 PM
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That was a much better explination for the framing. I do agree that those bolts will work good for holds but I would question their stength for anchors to clip off of. But, like an earlier post said if it's not very high just put a pad down and don't worry about it.......if your just practicing clipping.
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pianomahnn
Feb 28, 2003, 3:08 PM
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In reply to: From Entre Prise climbing walls, you can buy a vented (has holes in it) steel plate that is welded to a 3/8" nut. Similar pieces can be made from parts at your local hardware store. The plate should be at least 4" square. Using long wood screws (long enough to go at least halfway into the second layer of 2X6) Attach the plate/nut to the FRONT side of the brace. Put a screw in every hole in the plate, using washers to span the hole.
That's pretty much what I said to do in my original post. And I neglected to mention purchasing entire setups from companies because they'd most likely cost much more than a homebuilt piece from the hardware store.
Unless of course is isn't cheaper, in which case its more expensive in which case I'm wrong and I should sit in a corner. :(
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arrettinator
Feb 28, 2003, 3:16 PM
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talons, thanks for the info about the metal plate. I was planning on using the 4x4 design, you mentioned, and the plates might actually be a good way to go. I'll have to look into that.
But, is there a recommended bolt to use to attach the hanger to the wall that will hold the force of a fall. I don't want to use some run of the mill bolt from a hardware store.
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cheapholds
Feb 28, 2003, 4:40 PM
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the hollow set drop in anchors are commonly used by many climbing wall builders as the only anchor, with no additional bracing. to save time and money, tons of people will use these anchors in their hollow block walls rather than building a seperate structure. they work, and many people use them. powers has a patent on this anchors, to this is the only decent hollow wall anchor available.
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