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clastewart
Jul 30, 2009, 6:27 PM
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At a local indoor gym, my daughter was able to flash the three 5.6 problems they had, but couldn't even start the two 5.7 problems they had. Is this typical? In general, how much more difficult is a 5.7 compared to a 5.6. My daughter has just started climbing marked routes, so we don't have much experience with the different difficulty levels. Thanks for any info/advice you can offer.
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ukkonen
Jul 30, 2009, 7:00 PM
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... But you know what a "flash" is?
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ukkonen
Jul 30, 2009, 7:04 PM
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To answer your question. They are as much harder as the person who set the routes makes them. Grades have always been and will always be greatly subjective. There is no standardized process for determining a grade that I am aware of. They are used simply to give you an idea of the level of difficulty so you may have a fair idea if it is worth roping up or may in fact be hazardous to your health.
If you are climbing outside, the same general thing applies except no one set the route, so the grades simply describe the perceived difficulty of what has been found.
(This post was edited by ukkonen on Jul 30, 2009, 7:05 PM)
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kennoyce
Jul 30, 2009, 7:16 PM
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Many gyms seem to choose an arbitrary number for the easiest climbs that they set, meaning that maybe your gym chose 5.6 as the easy number, and those climbs may truly be 5.2, or 5.4, or anything 5.6 and below. I think that this is to make beginners feel better about themselves. The gyms then seem to rate the next grade up quite soft and then everything above that just somewhat soft.
I don't know if this is how your gym works, but I have seen it before.
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clastewart
Jul 30, 2009, 7:18 PM
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One thing I noticed between the 5.6 problems and the 5.7 problems were the size and shape of the handholds. The 5.6 problems had fairly good size handholds with good gripping surfaces, while the 5.7 handholds were much smaller (maybe 1/5 the size of the 5.6 handholds) and were also much more rounded. This size and shape difference really made the 5.7 problems much more difficult. I would expect the handholds to be more difficult to use at the higher levels, but it seemed like a very large increase in difficulty for a one level increase.
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clastewart
Jul 30, 2009, 7:24 PM
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Thanks for your reply. The gym also had 5.4 and 5.5 problems, but my daughter didn't climb them so I don't know if they were easier than the 5.6 or not. The gym also has what my daughter calls the "baby wall", where the climbs are not marked but are significantly easier than the 5.4 problems. Again, due to my lack of experience, I'm not sure if the "baby wall" would be 5.1 to 5.3, or even easier than that. I think the only way to really "calibrate" the difficulty levels is to go to a lot of different rock gyms and compare the difficulty levels.
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celticelement
Jul 30, 2009, 7:51 PM
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I have encountered a gym where the primary route setter is a boulderer. I think he just doesn't have a good conception of what an "easy" grip is for most people. I thought the routes at that particular gym were a good deal harder then things I had done outside or inside at other gyms, for the grade, simply because it was such a challenge to hang on the wall with no rest. It just all felt like extended boulder problems.
I climb mostly at a gym where the route setter is an experienced outdoor climber. I appreciate the feel of the routes there that feel more like routes I have done outside.
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rtwilli4
Jul 30, 2009, 8:07 PM
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It's not a good idea to rely on the grades at a gym too much. What you are asking is not so different than saying "why is the 5.8 at the Gunks (solid, maybe stiff grades) so much harder than the 5.7 in Thailand (soft, holiday grades)?
Maybe the routes were put up by different people.
Maybe one, or both of them were morons.
Maybe they tagged the holds wrong.
Maybe the 5.7 route setter didn't have a good choice of larger holds.
Maybe he is a 5.12 climber and has no idea what the difference between a 5.6 and 5.7 feels like.
Maybe the 5.7 has been up for a year, and the holds are greasy.
I could go on. The point is that it is hard enough for people to grade stuff outside. Inside, it is just a crap shoot. My gym grades go up and down like a roller coaster depending on who set the route and how long it has been there.
If you really want to try and advance in numbers, then you need to find out who sets the routes. It should be posted somewhere in the gym.
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celticelement
Jul 30, 2009, 8:14 PM
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I bet you could probably run some mood calculations on the route setters knowing the dates routes were set and their comparative feel/difficulty. It would be fun to try anyway.
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