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climb512
Aug 3, 2001, 2:52 PM
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Has anyone started or own a climbing gym? We are thinking of starting one here( Rock Ventures sucks bad) in Rochester N.Y. So we are looking for any beta anyone can through our way..thanks
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russman
Aug 3, 2001, 3:04 PM
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i would also like to see any posts on this subject. I am more ciuorious as to the funding anyone recieved or if they jsut took out a big a$$ loan and banked on everyhting. I want to start my own gym and "play" all day long, but the financing issue is my stumbeling block
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climb512
Aug 3, 2001, 3:41 PM
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we are trying to discuss opening a bussines, not building a woody,so dont fill this forum up with your babble please,kitty.I want real beta, and as soon as people seen your name on it they move on.
[ This Message was edited by: climb512 on 2001-08-03 08:43 ]
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coach
Aug 3, 2001, 4:05 PM
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I can't advise you on the business aspects but can give some info on the building of the walls themselves. When we put in climbing into the school program here we looked at the cost to have a climbing wall installed and found it prohibitive. We then decided to build it ourselves. We ended up with about 700 square feet with 255 holds. It includes a 6 foot overhang and an outcropping. We put in 3 permanent top rope anchors and ground belay points. Next we added a bouldering wall (100 sq ft), a HITS system wall and a hangboard beam with Warrior board. With the additional purchase of 20 harnesses, helmets, biners, figure 8's and 600 feet of rope the whole thing has been under $7000. We did have someone with contractor background to do all the design and supervise the construction but used students for labor. You can go to Nicros and apply for a vendor franchise (which we did) so you can purchase items cheaper. If you have some friends to help with labor building the climbing walls is not that hard. Make sure you check with the local building codes and make sure it all within specs. Good luck with your plans.
Climb On
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russman
Aug 3, 2001, 4:10 PM
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coach: That sounds pretty cool...but I remember reading that most people think that there should be about 25 holds per sq foot. I too thought that was excessive, but I have about that same amount of holds as you do on my wall of about 160 sq foot. I think you could add more holds and make teaching a little easier. you can always remove certain holds if it is too easy. Just rembering some of the stuff I read. Still sounds like fun, I wish I had as much room as you do.
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coach
Aug 3, 2001, 4:12 PM
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Climb,
If you want to see how it came out check out our Climbing Club webpage here . There are some more pictures of the kids on the climbing wall under the section Whats New" that you may enjoy. These are summer camp kids and they just got an intro to climbing. Hopefully we generated some interest in them.
Climb On
[ This Message was edited by: coach on 2001-08-03 09:13 ]
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krillen
Aug 3, 2001, 4:26 PM
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I think insurance is going to be the kicker. Look into it first, then you know relatively how much you have to clear per month.
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climb512
Aug 3, 2001, 4:44 PM
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Thanks for all the good beta so far. The insurance isnt a big deal not what youd think. It is an idea that I am working on for early next year. As for hiring people as kitty suggested...well its from a 13 y/o, cant expect more than that. The concept behind it is to keep it changing and the holds clean(a concept rock ventures here doesnt believe in)I am considering making a members only club. That would keep it small and wouldnt need more than 10-12k of wall space. No greasy pizza parties, family and kids of members welcome, no mass public parties.....any thoughts on this concept?
[ This Message was edited by: climb512 on 2001-08-03 09:50 ]
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russman
Aug 3, 2001, 4:53 PM
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i would be courious as to the size you would be looking at with a private club. I understand the concept, but how much do you think you would charge for a private club and be able to support the gym? From what I have seen, most gyms are relativley cheap which allows for the masses of people. I would think you would have to jack the prices if you limit the numbers. But understand the thinking behind it too. A "Climbers Only" Club...everyones big dream:) If the $$$ issue is not a prob for you...can you let me in on your financer...i got another proposition for them:) Hasta
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climb512
Aug 3, 2001, 5:14 PM
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That is the sticking point..the gym here charges 30$ amonth if you use a credit card for automatic payments or 10$ each visit whether you climb for an hour or all day. As for the banking, its called second mortgage and 401k loans. unfortunately the money is made with the large kids parties. so i would need to keep it smaller and lower overhead to be a climbers gym.would you pay 50$ a month? most workout gyms are up to that now.
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phishphan
Aug 3, 2001, 7:30 PM
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I would definatly pay more to go to an exclusive gym where you aren't going to worry about the parties and goof offs. Our gym has a member night on Mondays. But that is only one night that doesn't work out for many people.
[ This Message was edited by: phishphan on 2001-08-03 12:54 ]
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krillen
Aug 3, 2001, 9:19 PM
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sounds to me like you would prefer a co-op gym. but that is a non-profit venture. You could have a members only area, that would spawn a lot more people to join "Hey look at that route, ooh look at the overhang!!"
if you into it for a profiatble venture, kids parties and the laypersons are your market, if you want a climbers gym....I don't know if you can cover your costs nearly as easily. Depends on your consumer base.
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kriso9tails
Aug 3, 2001, 9:32 PM
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I agree with Krillen on his last point. At our gym there are two routes that work to the same effect, I just wish that there were more. B-day parties bring in alot of $$$, but are a pain in the a** to the climbers. If they were confined by time and space restrictions you could cash in on them without disturbing the real climbers.
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climb512
Aug 4, 2001, 5:06 AM
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there in lies the dilema. your cash cow is the kids parties, the times that you have those are sat/sun also the times when climbers want to climb also.but knowing that there is already rock ventures here in town and they cater to the parties and not the climbers, i think you could make it as a climbers gym and a place people could also go to learn to climb. the place here is only open 3pm - 10pm tues-fri sat 12-8 and sun 12 -6 not nearly enough hours for climbers. i would think mon-fri 6am-12am and sat/sun 9am-8pm would be better. plus a pro shop.there is no competition here as we have only ems and they suck anyways.what i am looking for is ideas/where to find floor plans. any other off the wall ideas that anyone may have.
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kriso9tails
Aug 4, 2001, 6:02 AM
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I think you could work it as a climbers' only gym. You'd just have to be avid about hooking a decent following. I for one would like to have a gym for climbers (still of all levels of course) only. I'd pay a little extra for that. Say, $400 (canadian) for an annual member ship, which is more than $50 more than what I pay now.
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climb512
Aug 4, 2001, 4:59 PM
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The concern isnt the finacing end, it is more will i lose my shirt. i dont want to open a place rock ventures which is a pile of s--- and just be a crap gym. i want to cater to the climbers.
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climb512
Aug 4, 2001, 9:54 PM
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you make a lot more money on the kids parties, that is the PROBLEM here. climbers pay 30$ a month and these kids parties get 10-20$ per kid for 4 hours. do the math. That is what we are trying to figure out is can climbers only support a gym and will they pay more for that exclusivness?
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fiend
Aug 5, 2001, 3:11 AM
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Here is the secret.
Corporate groups.
They come during the day and pay big big money for you to teach them how to hold hands and sing songs. Seriously. Working with them sucks. You need to go through games and teambuilding skills, but they will pay the bills. Todd Skinner gets paid thousands of dollars for a couple of days of teambuilding with the employees of multinational firms. If you live in the right area, there are plenty of businesses willing to pay for you to literally play games and teach them how to climb.
These groups are a pain in the ass sometimes but not nearly as bad as kids groups. They are gone by dinner time and then the gym is free for members. The trick is to do all this crap for a few years, deal with the corporate groups and birthday parents with fat wallets for a couple of years, then when you're stable financially, cut them off. If you can't belay yourself then go somewhere else.
As for renting space, go drive around the industrial areas, there must be realty groups that deal with this stuff that can at least point you in the right direction.
Keeping clients, simple, atmosphere. The gym must have a comfortable and friendly atmosphere. I have seen several small and bland gyms remain very popular because of the friendly staff and sense of comfort, where as other gyms with lots of space, large walls, plenty of terrain, can live only off of kid's groups because of the bad atmosphere.
Find out what the people want and give it to them. How much does a tv, vcr and some climbing flicks cost in the grand scheme of running a gym? Couches can easily be obtained from those more than eager to donate. Let the climbers play their own music. No-one wants to listen to the same bad 80's cd over and over in one night because the person working the desk couldn't be bothered to change it. These are simple things but they make so much difference. If only the owners realized.
The key to keeping your gym running well once you're established is to keep yourself the hell away from it. Let it run itself, trust your employees. Go climb. To many gym owners end up becoming bitter over their gym and then can't seem to run it properly anymore because they spend all their time there not trusting their employees. What's the use of having a climbing gym if you're not a climber anymore?
Final note, take a look at your prospective clients. In this case Rock Venture. What's their member base? Are the current members happy there? Can you attract new climbers/members? Is your town big enough to warrant another gym? etc etc.
I'll shut up now.
Ps, I don't run or own a gym or anything, I'm just a punk kid with a woodie in my room
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-08-04 20:13 ]
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climb512
Aug 5, 2001, 12:53 PM
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thanks fiend, i have talked to the climbing membership at rock ventures and we are the ones who arent taken care of. very few hours of climbers/members only times. wont let climbers set routes only his unimaginative troll manager can set them. so it is a matter of putting all the logistics together and doing it. thanks all for your input
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fiend
Aug 5, 2001, 4:18 PM
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Can I come work for you then?
Guest routesetter maybe?
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-08-05 09:19 ]
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climb512
Aug 6, 2001, 4:20 PM
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anyone have sites that build walls. or actually panels that are textured. the wall at Galyons store was built with pre drilled and pre textured 3x3 panels. The kid i talked with didnt know where they came from.
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tradgirl
Aug 6, 2001, 5:53 PM
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has anyone looked into researching for grant money? You can pay people to write the grant request for you. If your gym would benefit the community (or something like that) in some way-(like maybe one night a week you get mentally disabled kids in and let them boulder for an hour)it would be possible to obtain outside funds that way. It would depend on how charitable you would want to be with your time too. Just an idea.
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russman
Aug 7, 2001, 1:37 AM
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i have 2 differnt site bookmarked in my computer that have inquiry forms to send in to them. goto teh following pages and see if they help
Enterprise Wall Systems
Sport Rock
[ This Message was edited by: russman on 2001-08-06 18:38 ]
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compclimber
Aug 8, 2001, 10:12 AM
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You should start contacting companies that make climbing wall/structures (ie Eldorado,Leading Edge). Leading edge is awesome that is who designed/built our climbing gym and also Rockin And Jammin. And don't forget about ORCA everything must be approved by them. I can get you a contact number for ORCA if you need it?
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blackaven
Aug 8, 2001, 11:55 PM
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if a climber's only gym doesn't support itself finincially then you could combine it with another business, like a coffehouse. This would give your climbers a place to relax and watch other climbers do their thing and it would bring in more money to support the gym. I also don't think too many kids hang out around coffee houses
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