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sofakingcool
Apr 27, 2004, 9:58 AM
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Hey all
I want to look into opening a climbing gym , and was wondering if someone could please point me in the right direction , of how to go about getting the process started . I am serious about this , with a good amount of cash ready to be spent , just need to know where I can get the information to figure out if its really a realistic option . I understand there are lots of variables ( types of walls ect. ) but any information on who to contact , or a site where I could get some figures , would be much appreciated .
Thanks in advance !
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wideguy
Apr 27, 2004, 10:37 AM
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Solid Rock Wall Systems and EntrePrises Walls both offer consulting services as well as providing high quality walls. SRWS charges ~$1500 just for their consulting package. Conventional wisdom is you better have $1.5 million ready to go or investors ready to help out to that amount if you wanna do it with professional walls, good height etc. etc. etc .
Give their sites a gander. Should get you started.
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bauerbrian
Apr 27, 2004, 11:36 AM
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I am currently building a new gym. I suggest you purchase the climbing gym market survey from the the Outdoor Industry Association, this will give you a good understanding of revenue a gym can generate and all operational costs. If you have a big wall company build your wall your looking at $35-$45 a sq. ft. for climbing surface. You will need an overall capitalization of $600k to over a Million depending on the building.
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dief
Apr 27, 2004, 12:05 PM
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When your gym is open send me a note and I'll add it to our gym list (no charge). www.phoenixrockgym.com/gymlist.htm
If you are willing to start small, work hard and build the business you can start a gym with much less $$. I started Phoenix Rock Gym 12 years ago on $20,000. Leased a space and bought a mess of lumber. In 2000 I bought a bigger building nearby and built all new walls. Still building out the space. While this is not as convenient as hiring a wall company and having everything done on opening day it does have advantages. With no loans (except for the building mortgage) and no investers to pay back life is good. Send me some questions and I'll be happy to help you out as much as I can.
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ramylson
Apr 27, 2004, 2:59 PM
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First, definitely consider becoming a part of the Associations (Climbing Gym Assoc. and Outdoor Industry Assoc) for the industry. It'll help with saftey regulations, marketing, etc. At the very least, it'll give you some direction.
Now, you need to consider a few other aspects for opening this gym, more so then the simple costs of construction. Once built, you'll have to consider two major portions or your paid receipts: employees and insurance. Employment will be the largest portion of your expenses, but even more then that is the insurance associated with the gym. Depending on size, amount of business you'll have, and loss exposures will determine the premiums associated. To give you an idea of what to expect, a gym in the midwest that I insure pays ~$30,000 a year in insurance alone (liability, business personal property, commercial auto, and workers compensation). You're premiums could be higher or lower, depending on your specific gym.
Honestly, you're going to need some serious backing for this. As, you can just about guarantee that you won't be making any type of a profit for several years after your opening.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not telling you that you shouldn't open a gym. Far from it.. but, you definitely need to be prepared for success. Feel free to let me know if you have any additional questions.
EDIT: another manufacture for building sculpted wall surfaces would be Eldorado (adding into to one of the posts above).
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suzanica
Apr 27, 2004, 3:24 PM
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Out of curiousity, what area are you looking at? You live kind of close to me, I think.
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rockjim
Apr 28, 2004, 7:03 PM
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There is a gym opening in Thousand Oaks/Westlake Village which is 10-15 minutes from Simi Valley!
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sofakingcool
Apr 28, 2004, 7:34 PM
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Thanks for all the replies , great information . Paul from Boulderdash , the gym opening in Thousand Oaks , was nice enough to e-mail me and offer a tour of the gym before it opened , and tell me about his experience starting the gym . Living in Simi , the two closest gyms I'm aware of , are Jungle Gyms in Arcadia , and Rockreation in Santa Monica . Both are quite a jaunt , so I was going to look into building one aroud here . But , looks like Boulderdash beat me to it , and from the webpage , they did it right ! Looks nice ... Looking forward to going myself . Thanks again , I am still going to look into it .
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mik219
Apr 28, 2004, 7:49 PM
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my local gym that i go to is in a warehouse district and is quite a good idea to open a gym in a warehouse because walls are gennerally 40 feet high and lots of space to add tons of climbing routes. the cost of building all the walls, and the overhangs and the price of all the holds plus all the equipment will probobly be about 40-60 grand and if you get a good deal on a wharehouse you can possibly get one for maybe 100 grand
dont really know too much about these prices price will probobly vary in differnt places
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c-money
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May 1, 2004, 12:27 AM
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You can do great things with plywood... while it may not have that flashy appeal of rock-like wall structures, simple and clean plywood-constructed walls with well-set routes are great for training (and can be way cheaper).
Doing it yourself can obviously be way more work, but all the work can be worth it savings-wise, leaving you with the cake for holds, staff, and groceries!
The local gym in my area is a good example:
www.urbancliffculture.com
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bighigaz
May 1, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Phil, are you preparing your own business plan? I'm also opening a gym, and I've been doing a ton of research for a couple years now. There are a lot of good companies out there, but do your homework. I am actually quite impressed with Eldorado Walls. They are very good at getting things started for new business owners who need assistance through ANY stage of planning. Though I decided to "go it alone" for most of the planning, (so far), Eldo Walls gets my vote. PM me if you'd like some contact information. It might be helpfull to brush up on a little project management... MS project would probably be helpful. Anyway, in my experience it has been difficult to squeeze raw data from most gym owners I spoke to, but the information is out there, and I'd love to share it with you if you're interested, just ask! Now is a good time for the climbing industry economically, and if I can help a few other folks stimulate the demand a bit, I'm all for it. There are just around 550 gyms nationally now, (last I checked), and in the 2 or 3 years, enough new gyms have opened to almost add another one to each of the 50 states... Trying to open a gym is like no other climbing experience! But like any, it has it's challenges AND rewards. Good luck, we should talk!
James
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bighigaz
May 1, 2004, 1:04 AM
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BTW, you don't need 1.5 million to do it. Sure, you can build your own custom building, buy primo property, and build most expensive wall out there. But you could still fail! The buck is in the location. We found a good site, with an existing building, a little development, a new wall, and general start up costs are less then 500k. Our lease is extremely reasonable, as are development costs. Overhead was kept to a minimum, and we are going to be able to put the bulk of our financing into simply the best wall we can build, and making sure everybody knows about it! (RC.com is pretty helpful for that :wink: )
You ARE in California, though... so I guess it could be a bit more than AZ. Just do your demographic research and make sure you have the potential you need to make it work.
I'll shut up now.
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chalkpaw
May 1, 2004, 6:50 PM
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Gloria Hardwick, formally of Vertical Relief Climbing Center offers consulting on gym development on all aspects. Business plan development, operations management, retail, marketing, raising money, insurance, etc. I don't have her direct number but you can call Vertical Relief at 928-556-9909 and they can get you in contact with her. Best of luck with your dream.
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doktor_g
May 13, 2004, 4:46 PM
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To all,
This is a spectacular thread!!! Just what I've been trolling for. A group of us (three) are putting together a business plan for a gym. There's no other serious competition within 70 miles of our location, but we are in a town of only 20,000. One of the guys has got a little shop on main street (recently refurbished downtown) that's been open for about six months. There's a vintage building right behind with plenty of floor space and still in that refurbished corridor. We've looked into Entreprises and Eldo. We're thinking of having a mix of the fancy shmancy wall and a concretized coverage of plywood for the remainder. The ceilings are only about 18 - 20 feet high though. We've brought a little cash to the table, but not anywhere close to 1.5million. :shock: Crimeny that made my heart sink. We're talking like 80-100K max without a small-business loan. How can anybody afford 30K a year in insurance? That's outrageous. Anyway. I'll try to contact most of yall throughout the days and weeks ahead.
My sincere thanks,
Grover Shipman
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ramylson
May 13, 2004, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: How can anybody afford 30K a year in insurance? That's outrageous.
Well.. you're talking about a "high risk" activity, at least in the eyes of the insurance company. Also, and part of it is due to the high risk, not a lot of companies are willing to write a policy for it.
$30,000 for insurance is definitely sticker shock. But, remember, these premiums are determined by the paid receipts of the business, as well as other items they need in order to conduct that business. For this particular gym, you have paid receipts in excess of $500,000/yr. Also, policies for this gym are Workers Compensation, Commercial Auto, Liability ($1million per accident/$2 million aggregate), and Business Personal Property.
All in all.. not a small "shop".
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fiend
May 13, 2004, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: You can do great things with plywood... while it may not have that flashy appeal of rock-like wall structures, simple and clean plywood-constructed walls with well-set routes are great for training (and can be way cheaper).
Those fancy rock-like walls are too gimmicky. I'd rather climb on plywood walls with good setting than those craptastic molded rock things.
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synrock
May 13, 2004, 6:02 PM
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You can do amazing things with plywood. In some cases better than those super expensive panel things. Check this out.
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wyattearp
May 17, 2004, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: You can do amazing things with plywood. In some cases better than those super expensive panel things. Check this out.
Leave your Advertisments elsewhere~!
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doktor_g
May 17, 2004, 3:31 AM
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:deadhorse:
So if there's anyone still on this thread. Things are happening FAST. My partner made the front page of the local paper with his homemade portable climbing wall (three plywood panels). I feel like I'm just chompin' at the bit to buy this building. I have to talk with him to see if we've joined the outdoor industry association yet. Daaaammmmnnn. I can' wait to get this going man. TOTALLY STOKED!!! I've been busting a$$ on this business plan. I feel like it's written in crayon though. Y'know... naive?
RE: Manufactured walls. Yeah they're a gimick. Duh. That's how you get customers in the store/gym. Sheesh. A soccermom doesn't want to take her kid to a lumber yard.
Here's what we're thinking. A 80x17' wall of climbing (yes, texturized plywood). In the front part of the place a stalagmite/tite (spelling?) made out of the fancy schmancy stuff. Good for TRing and instructing. Also a 20x40x12' bouldering cave in the back. In the back there's an East-West running alley. What about a 'drip' over a curtain of chainlink. Dare I say ice climbing? North facing... Thoughts?
Arrrrrgggghhhh. Toooo much energy and at work on Sunday evening... May explode?!
-Grover
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bighigaz
May 17, 2004, 4:21 AM
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I need to edit my previous thoughts on this issue... the size and scope of a project like this can vary sooo much. What it boils down to, is only spend MORE money, if you plan on MAKING more money. We found our site today, and a perfect building, but the scope of our project just jumped from 500K, to 822K, to 1.2 million. No problem, we are going to take the market by storm, and [unnamed] has got the market for a large scale kick butt gym with all the amenities... so my original statement may have been a little vague. Under 500K is definately possible, but 1 million plus is quite a possibility. It all depends on the size of the crazy ideas running around in your head.
Also, a certain gym in the building phases in the Phoenix, AZ area managed to get liability insurance for less than $500 a month. Seems like a steal, but remember that insurance companies also base their figures on historical data... and indoor climbing gyms have a relatively clean record for the most part. This is no longer just the adrenaline junkies way of getting a dangerous thrill. Insurance companies are seeing indoor climbing in a better light: A fun way to get some great exercise! Don't stress too much about insurance, there will be plenty of other expenses, but make sure you've got it!
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wyattearp
May 17, 2004, 5:31 AM
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I think your idea for the wall sounds good, defiantly put in a good bouldering area, dont make everything too blocky, try to put in some nice modular features etc, if you can, its pretty easy with practice! A campus board/training wall is nice as well! Depending on your budget, i would say Gyms that make their own holds, Earth Treks ( I think ) Can generate their own income on top of that! The whole set up is not to bad much cheaper then an actual wall and its a great way to fill in your walls to the max, Now that Pusher has kinda of disipated into a greedy NEW company called Revolution, these guys are throwing on an extra 30 bucks to Pusher's old monster holds, sorry for rambling just a few of my thoughts though.... there is a gym in Europe with an indoor ice wall yet it requires a huge freezer basically, lots o fmoney to build anything like that, but who knows.... :D
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synrock
May 17, 2004, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You can do amazing things with plywood. In some cases better than those super expensive panel things. Check this out. Leave your Advertisments elsewhere~!
Not an advertisement marshal erp. Trying to make the point that the best walls are not what the expensive wall companies would have us think they are.
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wyattearp
May 17, 2004, 6:57 PM
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Yeah yeah ok....
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doktor_g
May 18, 2004, 4:34 PM
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Thanks fellas!!!
Yeah man. Ideas are whizzing by. I've even got a climbing partner (old and distant) that is a STRUCTURAL ENGINEER!!! I'm going out to climb with him in Colorado in June for a week. Emailed him today.
Today's a day off, and I'm going to the local courthouse to find out what this local realestate baron paid for the building we want. He kinda bought it out from underneath us. He didn't know that we wanted it, but I think he's really trying to take us for a ride on the price. Dumb dirtbags etc etc. I'm calling OIA today and register as a gym so we can get that 2002 market research.
Bighigaz: I know you don't want to release the name of the town publicly, but could you PM me or post the population. If not that's cool.
Thanks all,
Grover
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matttheripper
May 18, 2004, 5:45 PM
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Somebody needs to open a gym in Valencia. The city is booming out of control right now. There are so many kids now they can't build schools fast enough. Not to mention the city is full of money and there is nowhere to climb. It's close to Simi Valley, but far enough away from Stoney Point and the Thousand Oaks gym.
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