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climber49er
Jun 3, 2003, 10:53 PM
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And so are gym ratings... :twisted:
I have seen many posts on here about gym ratings being skewed and all but I just discovered last night how goofy they really are!
I normally climb at "gym a". There I can boulder about V2-3. On routes I go 5.9+.
Last night I go to "gym b" for a change. V0 was stupid easy, V1 was hard and V2 I couldn't hang on to. I think "golly gee, hard gym". So I get on some routes. 5.9 was stupid easy, 5.10 was easy, 5.11 was difficult but doable. I didn't bother past that, but I wouldn't have been shocked if I could have made good progress on a 5.12!
Rant, rant, rant. I just don't get these discrepencies. Now, I know that outdoor climbs don't correlate well to gym climbs either. Now I am wondering if there is a similar difference in ratings among different crags/states/etc for outdoors climbs.
????
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styndall
Jun 3, 2003, 11:37 PM
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There's a lot of difference between areas out there. Take HP40 and Hueco, for instance.
HP40's Circumcision is supposed to be V2. However, Local Flakes at Hueco is hella harder than Circumcision.
On the other hand, Man with the Slow Hand at HP40 is far and away more difficult than Rattlesnake Left at Hueco, even though they both have the V4 attached to them.
So yeah. Ratings are weird.
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drkodos
Jun 3, 2003, 11:39 PM
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I thought Local Flakes was the benchmark for V2....?
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tenn_dawg
Jun 3, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Dude,
Here's what you do.
Walk up to a climb, look at the line say either:
A) Damn that's a cool line, I think I can do it...
B) Damn that's a hard line, I don't think I can do it...
C) Damn I dunno, mabey...
Then either:
A) Go home sell your gear and take up wakeboarding...
B) Attempt said problem, and have a good time...
Grades are really simple if you look at them that way.
Travis
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climber49er
Jun 3, 2003, 11:54 PM
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Tenn_Hut -
Yeah, I think you're onto it...
Trouble is I care about grades because I like to set goals and see where I've come from. I know when I feel stronger but I like to measure if I have actually gotten stronger. I know that there isn't much climbing under my ability but I have already lost some perspective on what is actually, don't laugh, really easy.
My wife and I started climbing at the same time. I climb 2-3 times a week, she climbs about once a month. Guess who's improved more?(Her :shock: ) J/K
I don't want to go take her out and say, "oh yeah, get on this, it's easy" and have her flail, she will just get frustrated. Here ratings are helpful. I can have a semi-objective measure of difficulty to go by when choosing routes for her to try. This is good.
Not good is going from one place to another and going "warm up on this V0, babe" and it kicks her butt. Not a good mindset for starting a fun time out!
Truth is, I've done some of my best climbing when I don't have any idea what the thing is rated but it looks cool so I try it.
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styndall
Jun 3, 2003, 11:58 PM
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In reply to: I thought Local Flakes was the benchmark for V2....?
Is it? Cause I never got that damned problem, but I did send a bunch of things with harder grades around Hueco. And if Local Flakes is V2, then why on earth would Know One Gets Out Alive also be V2? That roof is mad easier than Local Flakes.
Maybe I'm just not built right for the Flakes.
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tenn_dawg
Jun 4, 2003, 12:06 AM
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Tenn_HUT...?
Hmmmm, you wouldn't happen to know anything about my rapidly disolving affiliation with the USAF would you?
Anyway, here's another way to look at grades. When you are first starting out, EVERYTHING is going to be a challenge. Especially outdoors. So there is a good chance your wife is going to have to flail a little to get started. I have found that a good starting point for absolute beginner climbers is 5.6 on toprope, then, 5.6 on lead, after they know they can climb that rating.
From there, it's all about mileage. For a beginner, climbing 10 5.6 pitches is indoubtably better than flogging on a 5.10.
Climb for the lines though. Pick something that looks interesting, and pound it out. Say, Hmmmmm, I'd really like to climb something that has a small mid height roof, then go find one.
As long as you're safe, you can do no wrong.
Travis
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chirp
Jun 4, 2003, 12:17 AM
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:o Yeah ratings and such are great yardsticks, but alas I have found they often set us up for failure. I'm with tenn_dawg on "climb now, ask questions later. Mebbe im getting OLD but some of the funnest times at the cliffs or the gyms that I have EVER had were when we forgot the guidebook or just jumped on stuff that looked cool . I have often succeeded on boulder problems way over my head by just playing stupid. Once I find out the true rating then BAM...my mind locks me out of the running. Enjoy and have fun!!
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climber49er
Jun 4, 2003, 1:17 AM
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In reply to: Tenn_HUT...? Hmmmm, you wouldn't happen to know anything about my rapidly disolving affiliation with the USAF would you?
Nothin' at all, I just have a thing about messing with names, got lucky I guess...
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mlcrisis
Jun 4, 2003, 1:27 AM
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Chirp,
Time for climing AND Everquest? just call me jealous! :P
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curt
Jun 4, 2003, 2:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I thought Local Flakes was the benchmark for V2....? Is it? Cause I never got that damned problem, but I did send a bunch of things with harder grades around Hueco. And if Local Flakes is V2, then why on earth would Know One Gets Out Alive also be V2? That roof is mad easier than Local Flakes. Maybe I'm just not built right for the Flakes.
They are both V2 to me. One is a big roof with HUGE holds and a crux turning the lip--again on HUGE holds. The other is a thin overhanging face. Different techniques are required.
By the way, if you want to see HARD V2 at Hueco, go do "Seka's Specialty" in the North Mountain Meadow area.
Curt
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troutboy
Jun 4, 2003, 2:02 AM
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The problem is not with the gym ratings. The problem is with your basic hypothesis/comparison.
You see pigs are not stupid. They are actually quite smart, for a barnyard animal that is :D
TS
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climber49er
Jun 4, 2003, 6:54 PM
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Pigs are definetly stupid! At least thats what the mice said in the movie "Babe". I believe them. 8)
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mhr2000
Jun 5, 2003, 2:30 AM
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I've found the gym ratings to be quite tough to go by 100%, but they do offer a general idea of what to expect. At least for me a certain label will make me study the route a bit before I decide to attempt it. I haven't used ratings to judge my progress though. When I first started out I stuck to the easy routes based only on the fact that I could do laps on them for warm ups then added routes to the mix that I couldn't do first try. I don't hang all over routes trying to figure them out so after one fall I would come down, try it again ground up and if I fell again would skip it and try again later that day or maybe wait till the next day. Once I nail those down after a few try's I start using those for warm ups then add a couple more I can't do to the mix. The cycle continues and everytime a route I can't do changes to a route I do laps on, that's how I judge my progress.
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redpoint73
Jun 5, 2003, 2:40 AM
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Almost always, outdoor ratings are based on the concensus of several or many people who have done the route. The rating is going in a printed book, so it comes under a good degree of scrutiny before being recorded.
As for gym climbs, an employee will set the route and then they have to put a rating up quick so the cunstomers know what it is roughly (a gym route that isn't rated is often a route that doesn't get climbed). Sometimes, the routesetter will just rate it himself, or he may ask his coworkers or friends to help him rate it. Sometimes others might correct the rating, sometimes not.
At the gym I train at, one of the routesetters doesn't even usually climb the route before he rates it. He just guesses (estimates?). So you have to take it all with a grain of salt. Sometimes others might correct the rating, sometimes not.
Even ratings outside can be pretty erratic, especially from one climbing area/region to another. Its just part of the fun!
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