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mya81
Apr 21, 2009, 3:17 AM
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Hi Everyone,
My question relates to reading the holds of an indoor route. I've been climbing for a month now and beginning to pat down the techniques.
I'm having difficulty reading a route before I climb. I find that I tend to read as I go up the route. I look at the direction of the hold to give me an idea of how I should position my body.
I know that I should be doing this before I climb and my instructor mentioned something about looking at the axis of the hold (?) and that your arm should be perpindicular to the axis. I don't think I've grasped that concept yet. Could you guys elaborate a little more?
I understand that route reading is beneficial in an indoor environment, but I find that in outdoor you can read the visible parts of the route but you pretty much then climb on instinct.
Thanks in advance.
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rschap
Apr 21, 2009, 3:48 AM
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I’ve never heard it put quite that way before but I guess it makes sense. Try picturing yourself in the position you would be in on the hold before and then picture the move it would take to get you on to the next hold. I don’t know if that helps. Don’t worry too much if you’re not seeing it right off, it takes a lot of people some time to see the moves ahead of time.
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krosbakken
Apr 21, 2009, 3:53 AM
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I would say don't worry about it to much. You have only been climbing for a month, just keep climbing and have fun with it. And if it works for you to read the holds as you climb, do just that.
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mya81
Apr 21, 2009, 4:06 AM
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Thanks for your replies guys. It feels more natural for me to read the route as I climb.
I find that when I try to fully plan the route before I climb, I end up getting confusing and in awkward positions because I'm thinking about it too much!
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dluk1601
Apr 21, 2009, 3:34 PM
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I agree that the best thing to do is not think too much. As you put the time in, your body will develop its own way to climb and you will become more and more efficient.
But to try and better explain what the instructor was saying. You should think of the flat surface and a geometrical plane, and if the two ends of the flat surface are pointing to 10 and 4 o'clock then your forarm should be a perpindicular plane with your elbow facing 7 o'clock. He's just trying to make the holds the most possitive that they can be which will inturn make you a more efficient climber and hopefully less tiered once you've reached the top.
Good luck and I hope you stay with it. Climbing has its discouraging times, so when you have trouble, make sure you ask someone.
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bill413
Apr 21, 2009, 4:06 PM
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The way to learn to read the route beforehand is to try & practice reading the route beforehand. What you're doing is the basis for this. Look at the route, try & figure out what you'll do, go try it & read & move while you're on it. After the climb, look at the route again and this time, picture what you actually did. By seeing what you wound up doing with the holds, you'll better be able to see what you will do.
Hope that made sense. 
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Myxomatosis
Apr 21, 2009, 10:19 PM
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Its so easy.... Put your feet on the first hold below your hand hold.
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ryanb
Apr 21, 2009, 10:39 PM
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People who climb inside a ton get to know the different holds their gym uses and so they know from below just how good the hold will be.
This is necessary skill for high level comp climbing but not helpful at all out side... what is helpful is an ability to look at a bit of rock and plan out what you might do. It takes awhile to develop this awareness...it comes from lots of time on the rock and lots of time watching good climbers.
If the route is longer then a short boulder problem you won't be able to plan out the whole thing so i generally break it down into chunks... climb to a good hold and then scan ahead to work out a plan for reaching the next good hold where i can rest and repeat.
It can be fun to play around with closing your eyes or using a blindfold while climbing (after studying the route well)...though do so only when you can fall safely (on tr for example).
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seatbeltpants
Apr 22, 2009, 3:24 AM
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ryanb wrote: People who climb inside a ton get to know the different holds their gym uses and so they know from below just how good the hold will be.
oh god, the shame i feel in knowing exactly what you mean - my local gym put up a new route the other day and as i climbed it i realised that i knew exactly what a hold was going to be like as i reached for it because i recognised its shape.
"ah yes, a nicros triangular crimp model 2d, best gripped in the following manner..."
back to the original question, i've been climbing for 18 months or so and am utterly shit at reading routes from the ground. i can get a vague idea of what may or may not work, what might be hard, where i might be off balance or able to find a good rest, but for the most part this turns out to be completely useless once i'm up there. once i'm on the route i can do a lot better at sorting out a sequence.
i've read eric horst's guidelines to onsighting and he talks a fair bit about trying to work out the climb before you start, but i guess i'm a long way from having the experience to do this. give it time, practice, and don't stress about it, i reckon.
steve
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gunkiemike
Apr 23, 2009, 12:25 AM
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bill413 wrote: The way to learn to read the route beforehand is to try & practice reading the route beforehand.
Deep.
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redsolarearth
May 30, 2009, 7:51 PM
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I have been climbing for almost 2 years now, I used to not be able to read routes at all, I just couldnt picture what the moves were untill I was a meter away. Then I started climbing outdoors, where seeing the move became harder, and more important, Practically overnight, gym route reading became second nature, it is so much easier than outdoor route reading! they even put those tape bits up. In the past 6 months there has only been one route (actually a bouldering problem) that I couldnt read. BTW outdoor climbing pushed my climbing ability way past what it was before, I think it is mental, you have to think much more outside
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asellers98
Jun 17, 2009, 6:23 AM
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My approach to reading a route:
1. Route reading starts with following the route all the way up to the finish. Getting lost because you don't know what direction the route goes wastes energy. For indoor routes tape may distract you. When I first started climbing, I would only scan the first few holds, and then fall because I went the hardest way using feet for holds, etc.
2. Then I scan for major rest spots, i.e. holds I love to hang/stand/lean on compared to the rest of the route. Knowing this, you can modivate yourself to make it rest stop one, resting, then moving on to rest stop two.
3. Then I study the first five hand and feet moves. It will give you a basic understanding of how the setter is wanting you to move your body. Is it a lieback, shoulder to the wall, heel hooking, big or little holds, etc. This keeps you out of a lot of traps early.
4. Transitions is the next key to think about when scanning the route. If my hands are here, which one will I need to go here then there. This avoids trapping your wrong hand on a hold, and you can't transition to the next hold.
5. Scan for "your" worst holds. Can you use them as intermediate holds, or holds you barely use to get to the next one. Keep feet and hands in mind for this. You may hate slopers, but if you could use it quick enough for your other hand to reach its place, it will limit your chances to slip off.
6. Scan for swing potential. If I come off there, will I hurt myself or others? I have saved myself pain by changing to a different rope or moving the current rope so I swing in a safer direction.
7. Scan for rope snags.If the rope snags on a hold, can I use a rest position to free it? Can I take precautions to avoid snags in the crux?
8. Keep existing injuries in mind. Will this route cause my ____ problems. Can I avoid irritating my injury? Should I skip this route in favor of one safer?
9. Obviously look for the crux. What is the most challenging part of the route. Is there a rest before it and after it? Why is it challenging?
10. Be aware of the natural features. Are there natural features to make the crux easier? This is easily overlooked while climbing, but if you scan for them on the ground, you may thank yourself. Even a far foot reach may make the difference between sending it or falling.
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vegastradguy
Jun 17, 2009, 6:35 AM
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asellers98 wrote: My approach to reading a route: 1. Route reading starts with following the route all the way up to the finish. Getting lost because you don't know what direction the route goes wastes energy. For indoor routes tape may distract you. When I first started climbing, I would only scan the first few holds, and then fall because I went the hardest way using feet for holds, etc. 2. Then I scan for major rest spots, i.e. holds I love to hang/stand/lean on compared to the rest of the route. Knowing this, you can modivate yourself to make it rest stop one, resting, then moving on to rest stop two. 3. Then I study the first five hand and feet moves. It will give you a basic understanding of how the setter is wanting you to move your body. Is it a lieback, shoulder to the wall, heel hooking, big or little holds, etc. This keeps you out of a lot of traps early. 4. Transitions is the next key to think about when scanning the route. If my hands are here, which one will I need to go here then there. This avoids trapping your wrong hand on a hold, and you can't transition to the next hold. 5. Scan for "your" worst holds. Can you use them as intermediate holds, or holds you barely use to get to the next one. Keep feet and hands in mind for this. You may hate slopers, but if you could use it quick enough for your other hand to reach its place, it will limit your chances to slip off. 6. Scan for swing potential. If I come off there, will I hurt myself or others? I have saved myself pain by changing to a different rope or moving the current rope so I swing in a safer direction. 7. Scan for rope snags.If the rope snags on a hold, can I use a rest position to free it? Can I take precautions to avoid snags in the crux? 8. Keep existing injuries in mind. Will this route cause my ____ problems. Can I avoid irritating my injury? Should I skip this route in favor of one safer? 9. Obviously look for the crux. What is the most challenging part of the route. Is there a rest before it and after it? Why is it challenging? 10. Be aware of the natural features. Are there natural features to make the crux easier? This is easily overlooked while climbing, but if you scan for them on the ground, you may thank yourself. Even a far foot reach may make the difference between sending it or falling.
this is pretty good advice, although i generally dont much look for swing potential or rope snags- its a gym, afterall and as long as you're aware of any climbers near you, you really dont have to worry about this.
finding the end of the route is pretty critical, as well as the path the route takes. cant tell you the number of people i see get on the wrong TR because they didnt look up before they started.
the worst holds, btw, are usually the crux, although not always. not only look for these holds, but look to see how many crappy holds in a row there are- this will usually tell you how long the crux is and whether you should really milk that rest just below it or just go for it.
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asellers98
Jun 17, 2009, 6:39 AM
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But since you are having trouble reading routes in general, my list may not seem to help. You maybe better served by practicing the different types of holds. Learn each style so you feel comfortable looking at it and know its plumb line. I use to have trouble with slopers, so I focused on climbing mostly sloper filled routes. If you know how to best use a particular hold, you know how your body position needs to be. Now compare that with the route, are they compatible. The routesetter may be testing you to use the worst part of the hold.
Comfort with how to use the different kinds of holds will make or break reading a route. So I would say this is key to solving your problem.
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asellers98
Jun 17, 2009, 6:45 AM
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[quote "vegastradguy
the worst holds, btw, are usually the crux, although not always.
I would agree with that statement, but I know many indoor climbers that if you include a crack as part of the route, then that is their crux, where it is elsewhere for trad climbers.
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vegastradguy
Jun 17, 2009, 5:02 PM
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asellers98 wrote: [quote "vegastradguy the worst holds, btw, are usually the crux, although not always.
I would agree with that statement, but I know many indoor climbers that if you include a crack as part of the route, then that is their crux, where it is elsewhere for trad climbers.
very true. unless its ringlocks.
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OMEGA3RIC
Jul 13, 2009, 9:11 PM
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I don't even bother reading a route until I'm already on it. I can only climb 5.12a and have been climbing for about 7 months so I guess I'm still a newb but you don't truly no the best way to do a move till you try it out.
Eric
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bill413
Jul 14, 2009, 12:13 AM
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OMEGA3RIC wrote: I don't even bother reading a route until I'm already on it. I can only climb 5.12a and have been climbing for about 7 months so I guess I'm still a newb but you don't truly no the best way to do a move till you try it out. Eric
Learn to read the route and you'll be able to do 5.12c in another 6 months.
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yankinoz
Jul 14, 2009, 12:14 AM
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try reading some routes from the top down - often the last few moves have obvious right hand/left hand holds and tracing it backwards helps see where you can/should match or cross over. This works outside too. Longer routes (tall gyms or outside) usually need to be worked out in chunks.
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bill413
Jul 14, 2009, 1:07 AM
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yankinoz wrote: try reading some routes from the top down - often the last few moves have obvious right hand/left hand holds and tracing it backwards helps see where you can/should match or cross over. This works outside too. Longer routes (tall gyms or outside) usually need to be worked out in chunks.
On many routes, you can switch hands (matching, jumping hold, etc.) at certain points. When working out a route in chunks, rememer that you can take advantage of those opportunities (or, as I constantly remind a friend of mine, ignore them).
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socalbolter
Jul 16, 2009, 8:10 PM
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yankinoz wrote: try reading some routes from the top down - often the last few moves have obvious right hand/left hand holds and tracing it backwards helps see where you can/should match or cross over. This works outside too. Longer routes (tall gyms or outside) usually need to be worked out in chunks.
You can also look for "thumb chalk." If the dot of thumb chalk is on the left side of the hold, it been used mainly with the right hand. The opposite would indicate regular usage by the left hand.
There are a lot of subtle things like this you can look for, especially in competition settings where your first effort may carry a lot of weight.
The list upthread offers some good general considerations as well.
Bottom line is that the more you attempt this (reading a route) the better you will get at it. Just don't forget to do the often missed final step in the process. That is once you come down from the climb take a look at how closely the movement actually matched your expectations. That critique, as much as anything else, will help you to do this better.
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