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pianomahnn
Jul 29, 2001, 5:56 PM
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Any setters in here?
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fiend
Jul 29, 2001, 6:02 PM
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I have a limited amount of setting experience.
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pianomahnn
Jul 29, 2001, 8:16 PM
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Do you have a favorite manufacturer of holds?
It's funny. Some people bitch and moan about a route not "flowing" up the wall. And a sequence not being perfect. When is an outside route ever perfect and flowing just right? I set this 5.12b/c and got crap from some people who tried to climb it and couldn't cut the cheese. They complained of it being too crimpy and didn't flow well enough. Blah. I've seen people do the route. Freaking whatever. It bothers me.
Anyways....the hardest thing I encounter is trying to make routes climbable for everyone of that level. Stupid ratings. That's the problem. I set this route that consisted of either mono or two finger pockets. I did it no problem, so I'm guessing it's like a 10a/b. My girlfriend gets on it, and she comes off it saying it's more 11b/c. RATINGS!!! So freaking subjective. It's the plight.
Speaking of setting...I'm setting tonight. Working on a nice lead traverse tonight. Should be kick ass. I hope.
I type too much.
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kriso9tails
Jul 29, 2001, 8:30 PM
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Routes have to flow indoors as much as possible. What's the point in setting a route that's ugly and awkward? It doesn't have to be perfect, but some people just throw up holds in any order and try to pass it off as a route. Climbing indoors is not climbing outdoors. It's not fair to say that if it's that way outside, it should be the same inside.
My problem is that some people just throw holds up in any order and try to pawn it off as a route.
People also shouldn't bitch about your routes. If you planned out a specific sequence and they don't follow, that's their problem and they don't have to climb it. Setting routes is often hard, especially with higher grades where the sequence can be obscure. If people can't recognize that then they shouldn't bother with the gym.
Monkey Grips are (or should I say were) the best textured holds ever.
I try to be "exotic" in the problems I set, and try to add unique movements, but the local gym owner is a pain, so I've never asked to set full routes.
[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2001-07-29 13:36 ]
[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2001-07-31 01:51 ]
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fiend
Jul 29, 2001, 9:36 PM
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The Voodoo Mulligans are awesome. They were the first to come out with the different textured holds I believe. The purebase system is nice too.
I also love the Pusher stuff and just bought some Metolius holds for my home wall.
As far as having routes flow, that is entirely subjective. If a route is above your level then you're not going to be able to tap into the flow of the route, other wise it wouldn't be above your level. All routes flow, just not all of them flow in your direction.
Setting for a grade is hard. My local gym never has anything harder than a 5.12a because the owner/routesetter can't climb much harder than 5.11a. On the other end of the scale, a 5.14 climber won't be able to set decent 5.7s and 5.6s because the comprehension for how easy a 5.6 is goes out the window when you're pulling down the higher numbers. For those that climb 5.14s everything below a certain point tends to blend together into one grade and become harder to define.
That's my theory anyways.
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pianomahnn
Jul 30, 2001, 8:23 AM
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I like your theory. It makes sense. I'm a 5.12 climber, and getting better, which kicks ass. But I hate ratings because its subjective. I can't rate things. It's either hard, or easy. Which is cool. But yeah, I can't distinguish a 5.6 from a 5.8, or even a 5.8 from a 5.9. Oh well. That's why I let others rate for me.
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fiend
Jul 30, 2001, 12:57 PM
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First time (and last) I tried to set at the local gym I had to set a 5.7, it ended up being a 5.8 for anybody who was climbing harder than 5.8. Those who were just barely climibing 5.8s found it stupid, hard and technical, while those who climbed harder actually liked it.
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pianomahnn
Jul 31, 2001, 1:10 AM
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Yeah, so, I like setting routes.
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kriso9tails
Jul 31, 2001, 3:18 AM
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Ratings as well as flow are only subjective to a certain degree. Why do some routes get labled classic by everyone, whereas others are commonly viewed as ugly? Sure, someone may think an ugly route flows, but we're talking about the vast majority of routes for the vast majority of climbers. If you take the time and thought[/] into setting a route then that's good enough for me, but since I don't know what went into setting a route so I can only go by how it feels. Of course if I jump on a 13 and it doesn't go I'll chalk it up to my inability, but otherwise...
[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2001-07-30 20:19 ]
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compclimber
Aug 21, 2001, 11:57 AM
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I think the key is to have decent holds with good movements. Plus on easier routes start to get footwork intensive, most climbers can watch someone else and then try those foot movements whereas if it was a big dyno they probably wouldn't even try. I've found that 8s are really hard to set after youve been setting 12s on the lead cave I think its just the angle.
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wandt
Aug 26, 2001, 1:01 PM
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Whenever I set a route I try to make it consistent. I try to keep it going with one theme, be it crimpers, slopers, sidepulls, smearing, big moves, littlew precise moves that MUST be done static or whatever. A little mix is always good, but I find that a constant trend best immitates the outdoors.
I also like throwing in dud holds that do no good whatsoever. And once I'm done I try to eliminate at least 3 foot holds and as many hand holds. I love matching. Especially right before a really long deadpoint.
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pianomahnn
Aug 26, 2001, 3:52 PM
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Whoah...you posted that at 00:00:00. Absolutely amazing!!
Anyways, from what little outdoor experiance I truly have (just took my first sport and trad trip last week), it doesn't seem that routes have a consistant theme to them. I've done boulder problems that consisted of a huge layback, to a little nubbin to a huge sloper to a ledge to a pocket you could fit a bowling ball into. Or a start that's a sloper to a thin crack gastone to a ledge. The sport routes had pockets, crimpers, monos, slopers, etc. all in the same route.
So, hey, I love theming, it allows for a GREAT concentrated workout, but it doesn't seem to simulate real climbing, which is what I try to do.
Cool dood. 00:00:00 he he he.
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wandt
Aug 26, 2001, 10:21 PM
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Where do you climb? I gotta go there. I've had about enough of the infamous Squamish Sloper.
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climberchk
Aug 26, 2001, 11:02 PM
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When route setting, the route should be a mix of stamina, strength, fitness and endurance. Not some off balance dyno that only one climber may be able to get. You’ve got to be creative. And the most important thing, DON”T make them reachy, it’ll really piss off the shorter climbers! Oh yeah, Nicros and Pusher make the best holds!
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wandt
Aug 27, 2001, 4:06 AM
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That's the catch 22. If you make it semi-reachy, tall climbers find it average and short climbers find it hard. If you make it not reachy short climbers find it average and tall climbers find it really easy with one useable hold after another and all within a very easy distance of each other. Only on a traverse can one REALLY give a shorter climber an advantage over a tall climber by putting the feet and hands super close together and making them scrunch up.
So what should be done? Cater to the smaller climber? As a tall route setter I find it very difficult to do that. To much assumption and guesswork.
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pianomahnn
Aug 27, 2001, 6:27 AM
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NICROS does not make the best holds. I work in a gym, and every single hold is a Nicros hold. I'm not saying they're horrible, they just aren't the greatest. Anyways...
My girlfriend is short, so I get some flack if a route I set is too reachy. And here's something, when setting, if the next hold is farther away then the distance from your shoulder to your elbow, you might want to fix it, unless of course you're going for the dyno.
I just finished a route today. It's a great lead route ( I hope ). Sit start off some slopers, a short traverse, to a roof for the 1st - 3rd clips, then onto a slab for clips 5-7, then to another roof for clips 8-10, over the roof to the final two clips. I think it'll go. My only concern is rope drag...damn the rope drag.
[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2001-09-22 15:36 ]
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wandt
Aug 27, 2001, 8:37 AM
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As in right shoulder to right elbow? That's only about a foot!Perhaps if I were setting a 5.7 would I space the holds that close together. Emmanual Lewis would scoff at the puniness of that move! Hell! Willow (from the movie of the same name) would scoff at the puniness of that move!
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5.13leadsalot
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Sep 7, 2001, 3:34 AM
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I've been setting routes in my gym since I started to climb there and I think that nicros holds kick some major butt especialy on boulder problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-MIKE
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pianomahnn
Sep 7, 2001, 5:54 AM
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Use some Pusher, or Groperz holds and you will definatly understand what I mean. Now, Nicros has a few really cool holds, but all in all, they do not offer a product line condusive to setting real exciting, technical, pumpy, difficult, etc, routes.
[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2001-09-22 15:38 ]
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bart
Sep 22, 2001, 4:58 PM
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I haven't really set a route before, but I would like to know how you fix it. Do you make some sketches before, do you have some moves in mind or do you just begin and see what it becomes?
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compclimber
Sep 22, 2001, 5:33 PM
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Anyone in here ever used the Crater jibs and screw on rails? Since they are polyurathane they dont get all polished and since they bend they dont break as easily.
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aulwes
Sep 22, 2001, 9:14 PM
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I love setting indoor routes... but I'm longing for the day when I have enouth experience to set a route out doors.
P.S. when setting a route please clean up as much loose rock as you can.
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tyraidbp
Sep 29, 2001, 12:54 AM
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I think that route setting is an aquired skill. Just because you can climb hard, doesnt mean that you can set a good route. If you set "12's" on a consistant basis, there is NO reason whatsoever that you should not be able to set an 8 or 9 that flows for the average climber. Infact, you should be able to put that route up in a matter of minutes. And setting routes with Nicros holds sucks, and even worse is setting them on the ever famous ART wall. When all you "12" setters are looking to set routes that are below your standard ratings, look for those movements that you had to learn to get to your current level. Also, look for those jugs that you would call the "thank God" holds, maybe work with some intermediate holds to force some foot work. When you do things like that, then it doesnt matter if the climber is 5ft nothing or 6ft ape span. Now, I have only been setting for a few years, and can set somewhere in the 5.13+ range for vertical, and about V10+ for bouldering, but I do think that you can set at lower levels even if you climb hard. There is a certain gym in the area, where the route setters are sooooooo limited as to what they can do(All Nicros holds, and mainly ART wall)that I dont see a point in wanting to set. And to hear certain individuals say that they are there to sell a product, and that product is routes, doesnt make any sense at all to me. That is like opening a store, and all you sell are "AAA" Energizers and nothing more.
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pianomahnn
Sep 29, 2001, 5:22 AM
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w0rd up homie
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addiroids
Oct 30, 2001, 6:16 AM
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If you climb hard, and want to set a 5.8, set in your hiking boots, or set in Chacos. Feet are important and if you are climbing 12's (I have never done that) then try doing something in sandels. Of course this doesn't work for the bastards who can climb 11's in flip flops.
TRADitionally yours,
Addiroids
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